How many belts should there be?

[vantheman]

Hello all,

The crazy rainbow array of belts that seems to be all over American Martial Artists has gotten me wondering lately: how many belts should there really be? Many schools now have 7 or 8 different color belts, combined with the use of colored electric tape leads up to 12 different Kyu levels. But are there really 12 distinct, unique levels of martial skills? Colored belts have been getting a bad rep for being used as money makers, (with every level-up coming with a testing fee) and while they can be useful for helping instructors recall what kata a certain student is working on, setting short term goals, ect, is there really a need for 12 short term ranks? What would you ideal ranking system be?

Mine would be

White: a student who has just began is learning the basic principles of the art

Green: a student who has can perform multiple katas, can perform simple and effective self defense, can spar and show an advantage over an untrained person.

Blue (May not even be necessary, I think 4 belts is enough): a student with a solid collection of techniques and katas, along with an increased speed and control over lower ranks

Brown: A student who has developed a strong arsenal of Techniques, katas, combinations, and can demonstrate higher levels of power and control, but lacks the fine tuning and attitude of a black belt.

(Pre-Black): A student that has met the requirements of a black belt, but is too young to be a full-on black belt.

Black: A Martial Artist with a balance of Speed, Strength, and control, and can defend himself with great ability. They must also have a good attitude, decent Physical ability, and the responsible and leadership skills that true black belts have.

And of course, Red Reserved for the Grandmasters or founders of the arts. A red belt would merely be a political belt, and would not be tested for.

I took some of the ideas and philosophies of this from http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2005/10/21/karate-ranks/ so check that out at your leisure.

One note on the use of stripes: I think that the use of stripe could be used to a limited extent, only used to denote that a student has all of the require forms, techniques, etc. for the next rank. Black Belts, on the other hand, I do not think that Dan Stripes are necessary, a certificate stating degree would suffice.

I would think with the ideas of this simpler, standardized rank system, McDojoish nature of martial arts belts could be reduced.

What do you guys think? What are your thoughts on ranks? What does your school do? I guess an even simpler thing to do would be to get rid of ranks completely...

[darksoul]

I honestly like the kempo belt system, especially as someone who has done some instructing. It helps keep track of what material a student has. At our dojo, we don't do testing fees. We even welcome students to buy their own belts.

But yes, I think ranks are important for the reasons you stated - short-term goals, helping the instructor know where a student is, etc... I would be happy with 8 belts (plus the 3 brown kyu)

There are only 2 belts I find pointless and those are the striped belts.

We have:

White

Yellow

Orange

Purple

Blue

Blue-Green stripe (unnecessary I think)

Green

Green-Brown stripe (unnecessary I think)

Brown (1,2,3)

Black

[vantheman]

We have:

White

Yellow

Orange

Purple

Blue

Blue-Green stripe (unnecessary I think)

Green

Green-Brown stripe (unnecessary I think)

Brown (1,2,3)

Black

That is the SAME EXACT system my school uses. It's not that I hate it, I was just looking at what an alternative would look like, and what others thoughts were. There are some advantages I see to using a variety of colored belts, but those seem to be more on how many katas, etc., that a certain student has, rather than their level of skill. In other words, not EVERY single blue belt is going to be better than every single purple belt, especially with varying ages. The colored belt system that many martial arts (especially kempo) systems use have many different levels, with less of a difference from one level to the next. This system does give a more exact pinpoint of a students skill/experience, but each individual level is less distinct from the one above and below it (compared to a 4 or 5 belt system).

[darksoul]

That is the SAME EXACT system my school uses. It's not that I hate it, I was just looking at what an alternative would look like, and what others thoughts were. There are some advantages I see to using a variety of colored belts, but those seem to be more on how many katas, etc., that a certain student has, rather than their level of skill. In other words, not EVERY single blue belt is going to be better than every single purple belt, especially with varying ages. The colored belt system that many martial arts (especially kempo) systems use have many different levels, with less of a difference from one level to the next. This system does give a more exact pinpoint of a students skill/experience, but each individual level is less distinct from the one above and below it (compared to a 4 or 5 belt system).

At my new dojo, I have seen that every blue belt is indeed better than the purple belts. I think the skill level may depend on the instructor. Since we do not have testing fees and the dojo is not for-profit, it allows more wiggle room for keeping a purple belt purple until (s)he is ready to advance.

I also understand what you mean, but I think it's digging into semantics at this point. Just because the skill is less distinct from one rank to the next doesn't mean there are too many belts.

I dunno... if Shaolin Kempo scrapped the stripes, I'd be happy.

[FangPwnsAll7]

In my dojo, the belt system is;

White Belt

Yellow Belt

Orange Belt

Orange Belt with 1 green stripe

Green Belt

Green Belt with 1 red stripe

Green Belt with 2 red stripes

Red Belt

Red Belt with 1 blue stripe

Red Belt with 2 blue stripes

Blue Belt

Blue Belt with 1 white stripe

Black Belt

In my opinion, our belt system has too many stripes and too few colors. I think we could have added in a purple belt or even a brown belt.

However, I am satisfied with this belt system.

[Dobbersky]

IF students were patient and put the time in, 4 gradings (12 months between each grade beginning at White Belt) would suffice between White & Black too

Year 1 - Yellow Belt

Year 2 - Green Belt

Year 3 - Brown Belt

Year 4 - Black Belt

This wouldn't happen as it would be a very small club and because of the McDOJOS and Belt Factories Students expect a shiny new belt every 12 weeks

[JusticeZero]

Six.

No Belt: Just started. Still learning the basic fundamentals. If you ask them to do (insert basic bread and butter technique here) , say reverse punch or front kick, expect to be looked at in confusion.

Green Belt: Knows the basics. Typical student.

Yellow Belt: Advanced student. Can be thrown around the room forcefully or have other intense things demoed on them and will deal with it gracefully.

Blue belt: Instructor. Qualified to teach.

White belt: Instructor.. of the class you are in. only one of these in a room at once.

Brown belt: Visitor. Green or higher, but in a different style. Expect them to move wierd.

Edited September 11, 2012 by JusticeZero

[chrisw08]

I think anywhere between 4-6 is apropriate. I think 4 would make it less catorgized and people on 4 diffrent levels instead of 10 but 6 does show where you have made progress though.

[jaypo]

We have the following:

White

Yellow

Orange

Green

Blue

Purple

Red (1,2)

Brown (1,2)

Black

For the junior students, he does award "advanced" colored belts to those that know the techniques, but may be a little to young or inexperienced. For example, my daughter just turned 9. She can do all of the techniques required from a green belt as well as all of the katas. However, she has not been training for a year, and she does not have a lot of focus and power in her techniques. So she has the knowledge, but needs "polishing" on her techniques. So she was awarded "advanced orange".

I know for a fact what everything that my instructor provides costs to him and what he charges. And I can tell you that the testing fees are to provide for the club equipment. The gi's, pads, and credentials are all the same as if you buy them somewhere else (for example, he charged me $27.00 for my daughter's gi, and if I would have gone to Academy and bought the exact same one, it would have been $27.00 plus tax).

I've been a member of the other type of club, and I can say that I truly feel that my current club is about learning the system and not generating revenue!

[shinka]

i think it all depends of the schools and how many technics there is.

We have more than 3800 technics in Hoshinkido.

So we have 13 belts

But must remember that all the old masters will say....

It all started with ONE WHITE BELT.... Training hard outside made it turn dark (black)....That's how they made the difference between a new student and an advanced one