10 year old Black Belts!

[Nidan Melbourne]

Have to be 18 years old to test for Shodan in Shindokan...No exceptions!!

Fair enough!

[quinteros1963]

JBB is a good designation for youth under 16. Once a student reaches 16 he should be allowed to test for a black belt. What if the kid has earned a Jr. 2nd or 3rd dan? Should that translate to the same rank as an adult? Just my opinion.

[sensei8]

JBB is a good designation for youth under 16. Once a student reaches 16 he should be allowed to test for a black belt. What if the kid has earned a Jr. 2nd or 3rd dan? Should that translate to the same rank as an adult? Just my opinion.

Nope! That Jr. 2nd and 3rd Dan should allow one to test for Shodan, as an adult.

[Nidan Melbourne]

JBB is a good designation for youth under 16. Once a student reaches 16 he should be allowed to test for a black belt. What if the kid has earned a Jr. 2nd or 3rd dan? Should that translate to the same rank as an adult? Just my opinion.

Nope! That Jr. 2nd and 3rd Dan should allow one to test for Shodan, as an adult.

I can agree with that. From what i have seen from various schools that i have visited, that the syllabus for juniors and adults are different (be it when they learn things or other).

For instance kata at my dojo, our juniors do this for each belt:

White - Taikyoku Jodan

Yellow - Taikyoku Chudan

- Difference from Taikyoku Jodan is that instead of an upper block (Jodan Uke in my school) you do a middle block (Chudan Uke). And also a middle punch instead of an upper punch.

- Same footwork as Taikyoku Jodan

Orange - Taikyoku Gedan

- All in Shiko Dachi

- Lower Block

- Lower Punch

Red - Taikyoku Kake Uke Ich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_zQV5CZW0A

Green - Taikyoku Mawashi Ich

Purple - Gekesai Dai Ichi and Gekesai Dai Ni

Gekesai Dai Ichi

Blue - Saifa

Brown - Seinchin

1st Brown - Seinchin

Same as Brown Belt

Black (Shodan-Ho) - Seinchin

Black (Shodan) - Sanseru,

But for the Adults

White - Taikyoku Jodan & Chudan

Yellow - Taikyoku Gedan & Kake Uke

Orange - Taikyoku Kake Uke & Mawashi Ichi

Red - Mawashi Ichi & Gekesai Dai Ichi

Green - Mawashi Ichi, Gekesai Dai Ichi, Gekesai Dai Ni & Saifa (start learning saifa now)

Purple - Both Gekesai Kata, Saifa, Sanchin Kata and seinchin kata (start learning it)

Blue - Saifa, seinchin

Brown & 1st Brown - Seinchin, Tensho, Sanchin, Sanseru

Black (shodan-ho and up) - Sanseru, Seisun, Kururunfa, Seipai, Shishochin, Suparempei,

So our junior black belts (if they haven't reach the age of adulthood according to my sensei - he has set the bar at 14) you can grade as a JBB to whatever dan. But if they want to grade from a JBB (say 3rd dan) to an adult 3rd dan they HAVE to prove that they know all the kata for our system (even if it just the steps) and also proven that they have served that adequate time frame as a mature student.

Say a JBB 2nd dan who is 13 years old wants to grade to an adult 3rd dan we wouldn't allow it at all. As he is too young to hold such a grade and also he hasn't taken the time to learn each of the katas in depth. Also there is the fact that he wouldn't be taken seriously. So we would only grade him to a 1st dan. which would get him to train for those further years before he gets that rank of an adult 3rd dan. and by that time he would be of at least 20 years of age or older by that time he can be eligible to go for it. He would be pushed even harder because of that rank he held so he wouldn't be able to breeze through that grading knowing that he passed.

The more advanced kata (Shisochin, Kururunfa, Suparempai, Sepai) have to be of a high standard for us to be able to grade him to an appropriate similar rank. For me as a 2nd dan, I had to be able to perform up to Shisochin and know (even if vaguely) Suparempai and Kururunfa. But i already knew Kururunfa extremely well (as it is my favourite kata and a tournament kata for me).

Also our students are required (if they hold a JBB and want to grade for an adult black belt) to have trained in the adults class for a number of years before we consider them "full" black belts. As it wouldn't be right if they hadn't even trained in the adults class for some time.

[devil dog]

I never understood giving kids the rank of Shodan or higher. Our students are a reflection of us as instructors and more importantly of our dojo and our art. I have had kids (12 - 14 yrs) enter my school and tell me they hold the rank of Shodan and even one that held the rank of Sandan.

In my experience they do not measure up to the rank in experience, knowledge and maturity. And in fact would not measure up to my Gokyu.

There are rare cases when a student of 15 is awarded a Shodan but for the most part you have to be 16 to be considered for Shodan in my art. All those younger are give a provisional rank of Shodan Ho.

The problem I see with kids holding higher ranks is they do not have the maturity level that is needed. What I mean by that is the physical ability, mental ability, knowledge and life experience.

If you give belts out like passing out candy how then will others look at you as an instructor and more importantly at your art? A rank without warrant is just a belt without meaning behind it.

[juddmvp]

I have been debating this in my own mind for some time, and I have really enjoyed the subject. There have been some great contributors. Here are some things I have considered on wether or not to promote kids to a full black belt rank:

1. If a child in your dojo has a colored belt such as a brown belt, is the belt completely brown, or do you consider it a Junior Brown Belt? I have never thought about this until recently, but it seems to me that if you are saying a kid can get a full color belt, and not call it a junior belt, then why not a full black belt?

2. I am about 5' 10" and I have a fellow martial artist I study with that is 6' 5" and I have a really hard time getting inside to hit him (not that I can't but it is really difficult). For me the concept I have been going over is that a person needs to be judged against their own abilities and skills of improvement, not on that of another. For example Raymond Daniels in a sport karate situation could kick my butt, and if we compare me to him it would seem like I didn't earn my belt. We need to look at each person case by case. Athletic people are in one category, but un-coordinated people will be in a much different category.

Each person in the arts needs to stretch their physical and mental capabilities. For me that is the ultimate goal of belt promotions, did you stretch who you were from the last promotion, and did you learn something that expanded your mind and repertoire. Just my 2 cents

[sensei8]

I have been debating this in my own mind for some time, and I have really enjoyed the subject. There have been some great contributors. Here are some things I have considered on wether or not to promote kids to a full black belt rank:

1. If a child in your dojo has a colored belt such as a brown belt, is the belt completely brown, or do you consider it a Junior Brown Belt? I have never thought about this until recently, but it seems to me that if you are saying a kid can get a full color belt, and not call it a junior belt, then why not a full black belt?

2. I am about 5' 10" and I have a fellow martial artist I study with that is 6' 5" and I have a really hard time getting inside to hit him (not that I can't but it is really difficult). For me the concept I have been going over is that a person needs to be judged against their own abilities and skills of improvement, not on that of another. For example Raymond Daniels in a sport karate situation could kick my butt, and if we compare me to him it would seem like I didn't earn my belt. We need to look at each person case by case. Athletic people are in one category, but un-coordinated people will be in a much different category.

Each person in the arts needs to stretch their physical and mental capabilities. For me that is the ultimate goal of belt promotions, did you stretch who you were from the last promotion, and did you learn something that expanded your mind and repertoire. Just my 2 cents

Welcome to KF!!

Solid post!!

To the bold type above...

Kyu ranks, for us, are full ranks, no matter the age. However, the JBB was and is designed for those under the age of 18 years of age; at the forefront of this mindset is "Maturity". This is how our Soke made it to be so; with no ambiguity!! Who's to say who's mature or not? In our style, our Soke was the one that set it up, and it was his authority that said yea or nay!!

[FangPwnsAll7]

There's an eight year old black belt with very bad discipline. He doesn't listen to anything he's told and he shows off his rank. He thinks because he is a black belt, he can do anything he wants.

[Nidan Melbourne]

There's an eight year old black belt with very bad discipline. He doesn't listen to anything he's told and he shows off his rank. He thinks because he is a black belt, he can do anything he wants.

Thats really bad that he doesn't listen to anyone. How old was he when he started karate? because an 8 year old getting their black belt sounds a bit off to me. This is because at all the dojo's i've trained at the minimum age to start is 6 and takes on average 3+ years to get their black belt.

At my old dojo, their hombu runs "mighty mights" for 4 + 5 year olds but they don't get to transfer that rank over, due to the different curriculum taught.

[FangPwnsAll7]

There's an eight year old black belt with very bad discipline. He doesn't listen to anything he's told and he shows off his rank. He thinks because he is a black belt, he can do anything he wants.

Thats really bad that he doesn't listen to anyone. How old was he when he started karate? because an 8 year old getting their black belt sounds a bit off to me. This is because at all the dojo's i've trained at the minimum age to start is 6 and takes on average 3+ years to get their black belt.

At my old dojo, their hombu runs "mighty mights" for 4 + 5 year olds but they don't get to transfer that rank over, due to the different curriculum taught.

He started when he was four.