Strength training and Conditioning training?

[Evil Dave]

I think our views are the same, but we differ in our approach, but if you ask three trainers the same question, you are likely to get five different answers. Which one is right?

[Ueshirokarate]

I think our views are the same, but we differ in our approach, but if you ask three trainers the same question, you are likely to get five different answers. Which one is right?

There is nothing wrong with crossfit. However, we are talking about a teenager who is already heavily training in martial arts. Martial arts training accomplishes much of what people take up crossfit for and it isn't the muscle building aspects of crossfit we are talking about. The way I see it, there is no reason to take away from his golden muscle building years to double up on training that does not add to and may actually hinder his muscle building progress. The muscles and nervous system can only take so much and he only has so many hours in a day to train. IMHO, it is smartest for him to focus on martial arts training and heavy weight training for hypertrophy. When he has packed on some muscle in a few years, he can always shift focus to other aspects of conditioning if he needs to. My guess is that if he puts his all into the weight training and martial arts, his conditioning will probably be fine.

[Liver Punch]

For what it's worth (and I'm certainly not a "normal" person in any sense of the word) I couldn't put on much for muscle as a teenager. I could lose weight, and I could gain muscular endurance like crazy, but packing on muscle and making huge gains in the weight room just wasn't something that happened for me. By my estimations, I hit "16 years old" when I was about 24.

That aside, I can't stress how important it is that if anyone is going to spend time in the weight room, that they avoid the "1980's style meatheads." There's still plenty of weigh rooms out there with a group of guys in it that do things without any regard to modern knowledge or training techniques. Doing nothing but bench press and steroids for 8 hours a day isn't a good recipe for fitness.

[Ueshirokarate]

For what it's worth (and I'm certainly not a "normal" person in any sense of the word) I couldn't put on much for muscle as a teenager. I could lose weight, and I could gain muscular endurance like crazy, but packing on muscle and making huge gains in the weight room just wasn't something that happened for me. By my estimations, I hit "16 years old" when I was about 24.

That aside, I can't stress how important it is that if anyone is going to spend time in the weight room, that they avoid the "1980's style meatheads." There's still plenty of weigh rooms out there with a group of guys in it that do things without any regard to modern knowledge or training techniques. Doing nothing but bench press and steroids for 8 hours a day isn't a good recipe for fitness.

Steroids are completely unnecessary and just plain bad for you. One of the biggest misses when it comes to putting on muscle is diet. Someone must lift hard progressively, but they also need to eat sufficient calories (and consume enough macros such as protein) to put on muscle. We also need to consider that some of us have higher metabolisms or metabolic needs based upon activity levels. If you have trouble putting on muscle, chowing down hard gainer supplements (crap IMHO) is not a game plan. But I would say that if you can't put on muscle as a teenager, something is wrong with what you are doing. Most likely it is diet or training program. Keep in mind, even during the teenage years muscle takes much longer to put on than we think it will or should. Just like martial arts skills, these things happen very gradually over long periods of time and only with the right training and consistent (over years) effort can they be achieved.

[Evil Dave]

Ueshirokarate, One of the reasons I like Crossfit for this instance, is programing. It will be done for him and a good coach will be able to modify the program to fit his goals. Like you mentioned, concentrate on the MA, more time can be spent on this by not having to create his own lifting program and make the same mistakes other keep making. Although he is asking questions, this is good.

Liver Punch, the meatheads only start listening to us trainers after they get hurt. They really don't like it when I give them an "I told you so" about when, where and by how much it would hurt. Unfortunately most human males need to be taken down, gently, once in a while. I know I did when I was young.

[Ueshirokarate]

Ueshirokarate, One of the reasons I like Crossfit for this instance, is programing. It will be done for him and a good coach will be able to modify the program to fit his goals. Like you mentioned, concentrate on the MA, more time can be spent on this by not having to create his own lifting program and make the same mistakes other keep making. Although he is asking questions, this is good.

Liver Punch, the meatheads only start listening to us trainers after they get hurt. They really don't like it when I give them an "I told you so" about when, where and by how much it would hurt. Unfortunately most human males need to be taken down, gently, once in a while. I know I did when I was young.

Any good knowledgeable trainer should/would customize a program for him. Crossfit really has nothing to do with that. Crossfit is crossfit, just as Bodybuilding is Bodybuilding and in my opinion, neither is a fit for the OP, as his primary focus is martial arts.

There are literally thousands upon thousands of different exercises he can do and so many people out there jump from exercise to exercise and really just spin their wheels. I have suggested to him several times to pick up Olympic style lifts, as those would develop both strength and explosiveness that would be so helpful in the martial arts. The second choice to me would be a more traditional strength training regimen with compound lifts. Both of these tools exist outside of Crossfit. He is already involved with several types of martial arts training, so why add even more volume to his regimen with a Crossfit routine, especially when doing so will most likely take away from his hypertrophy?

Most of the certification training I have is for Crossfit type exercises specific to martial arts. I train with sand bags, a TRX and other things common to Crossfit gyms. However, I am older and at 215lbs I already have a pretty solid base of muscle mass. Hence, my goals are completely different than those of a 16 year old. In my opinion, his best bet is to start with a basic lifting program and nutrition plan to build muscle mass. He can worry about other things later. He has several golden years ahead of him to grow muscle mass and he shouldn't let those pass by. Right now he should keep it simple and progressive (something like starting strength.)

[bushido_man96]

I agree; Starting Strength or Wendler's 5/3/1 programs would be great for him.