when is it self defense?

[hiddendragon98]

When are you supposed to draw the line and seriously use your martial arts on someone if they shove you or would that be to soon to draw the line and if they punch you would that be to far?

[Groinstrike]

When a person poses a serious threat of personal harm or injury to yourself or loved ones. That is the line, plain and simple.

Regardless what Master Ken says, just because someone shoves you that does not give you the legal right to rearrange their face.

If someone tries to punch you, the waters get a little murky. Can you leave the situation??? Is the person some drunk swinging hooks outside of a bar, or a calculated person trying to viciously assault you???

[MasterPain]

The simple answer is that it is not that simple. There is not a certain set of rules stating "If X, then Y." You have a right to defend yourself if you believe you are in immediate danger of physical harm. You'll need to be able to explain to police why you believed they were going to hurt you.

Also, you have to stop once the threat is no longer there, whether that be because they are unable to hurt you anymore or decide they don't want to anymore. Hurting a helpless or fleeing person is a crime, even if it began as self defense.

Keep in mind that the school systems will generally punish everyone involved, regardless of legality.

Also, check your local laws. They can be very different, and successfully defending yourself doesn't do much good if you end up in prison surrounded by nazis, serial killers and pot smokers.

[Zaine]

One of the most important things that my teacher taught us is that we should always run if we can, fighting is always the last resort. I get that doing that can be seen as cowardly and that can be hard to get around for some martial artists, but I'd rather avoid a confrontation and not get mixed up with a fight in a place that I might not know well against a guy that I probably don't know with the end result of talking to the police and either sending someone to the hospital or going myself. Other than that, Groinstrike and MasterPain have the right of it, it's sometimes black and white when you should, it's sometimes very grey. What you have to do is assess the situation as best you can and decide for yourself whether or not the situation requires any force, or if you can try to talk it out. It may hurt the ego, but sometimes an apology goes a long way.

[JusticeZero]

If you could just say "Yeah, my bad. Bye." and leave, it isn't self defense.

If your story starts with "I was hanging out at a bar.." it isn't self defense.

If you at any point think you will "teach him a lesson", it isn't self defense.

[MasterPain]

If your story starts with "I was hanging out at a bar.." it isn't self defense.

I have a problem with this one. While they may not be the safest places, an adult has a right to be there. And they have a right to not be attacked. If you behave like a reasonable person, you should be able to avoid trouble, and walk away or redirect anyone who gives you problems. Fights also happen a lot at sporting events and schools. A person can't just lock themselves in their home.

A person should take the risk into account before going, and remain sober enough to be aware of their surroundings, but that if a far cry from saying that it's not self defense if you need to defend yourself.

[JusticeZero]

Maybe, but it seems as though every story that ends in "and I started punching and kicking and.." starts with "We were hanging out at a bar on a shady side of town.."

Furthermore, the majority of "hypothetical self defense cases" that people that we suspected of having shaky morals who were on the verge of being uninvited from training always used to ask always started out with "Well, what if i'm in a bar, and..".

That and seeing where police cars tended to be tends to leave me to the conclusion that "to get in a fight" is a not uncommon motive of going to a bar.

[sensei8]

When a person poses a serious threat of personal harm or injury to yourself or loved ones. That is the line, plain and simple.

Regardless what Master Ken says, just because someone shoves you that does not give you the legal right to rearrange their face.

If someone tries to punch you, the waters get a little murky. Can you leave the situation??? Is the person some drunk swinging hooks outside of a bar, or a calculated person trying to viciously assault you???

Solid post!!

[sensei8]

I'm a MAist, but that doesn't mean that I can't wait to "prove" myself and/or Shindokan to my attacker(s). I hope that I never have to use 'it', but if I do, I'm cool with its outcome.

[Liver Punch]

"to get in a fight" is a not uncommon motive of going to a bar.

And here I was using it to get intoxicated...