"You've Failed!!"

[kensei]

Generally my instructor does the Kyu testing only, we leave the Dan testing to the National rep for the JKA and invite him out, he is a great guy to have out.

For the Kyu level my instructor watches everyone in seminars and twice has he said something to me like "No, lets give that person a few more months to work on that" and asked them not to test. We have also failed a few people that were not up to the test. But generally we dont let people test unless they are ready for it.

We do not announce those that failed, we dont view it as failing, they were simply not ready for the next level.

[Lupin1]

My instructor puts a sign up for everyone to see. It lists the word "Passed" with all the students who passed. There's onenext to it that says "Failed" with the people who did not pass.

Somehow I find this method wrong.

As an elementary school teacher last year, we were actually told that posting grades for the entire class to see was illegal and considered bullying on the part of the teacher. I think that description is a bit overboard (too many things are considered bullying nowerdays), but needless to say I took down my "progress charts" where kids could earn stickers when they got a certain score on tests so kids couldn't see how many stickers the others had. It makes sense. As an adult, I would be devastated if it was displayed in front of all my peers that I failed in some endeavor (but I'll still go home and post about it on Facebook...). Sharing your successes and failures with others should be at your own discretion.

That said, there's no point in giving a test if it's impossible to fail and so if a student shows up on test day and doesn't put in the effort and doesn't live up to what he or she has been doing in class, I'd fail them. But that should really be the only occasion someone should fail-- if they're not ready, don't let them test, and if they just have a bad day on test day but have shown they're ready and gave it their all, promote them provisionally and after a few good classes, take away the provision informally with a handshake after class or something.

We don't do tests at my karate school except for Shodan-- people are given a new rank when the instructors feel they're ready for it and it's just announced at the closing of class and everyone claps for them and they come up and shake hands. So you can't really fail, although when people are kept at one rank while all their peers are progressing ahead of them, it can have the same effect as failing a test.

[sensei8]

My instructor puts a sign up for everyone to see. It lists the word "Passed" with all the students who passed. There's onenext to it that says "Failed" with the people who did not pass.

Somehow I find this method wrong.

As an elementary school teacher last year, we were actually told that posting grades for the entire class to see was illegal and considered bullying on the part of the teacher. I think that description is a bit overboard (too many things are considered bullying nowerdays), but needless to say I took down my "progress charts" where kids could earn stickers when they got a certain score on tests so kids couldn't see how many stickers the others had. It makes sense. As an adult, I would be devastated if it was displayed in front of all my peers that I failed in some endeavor (but I'll still go home and post about it on Facebook...). Sharing your successes and failures with others should be at your own discretion.

That said, there's no point in giving a test if it's impossible to fail and so if a student shows up on test day and doesn't put in the effort and doesn't live up to what he or she has been doing in class, I'd fail them. But that should really be the only occasion someone should fail-- if they're not ready, don't let them test, and if they just have a bad day on test day but have shown they're ready and gave it their all, promote them provisionally and after a few good classes, take away the provision informally with a handshake after class or something.

We don't do tests at my karate school except for Shodan-- people are given a new rank when the instructors feel they're ready for it and it's just announced at the closing of class and everyone claps for them and they come up and shake hands. So you can't really fail, although when people are kept at one rank while all their peers are progressing ahead of them, it can have the same effect as failing a test.

Solid post!!

[sakurakaratekai]

I have wrestled with this problem many times and eventually came to a bit of an uneasy compromise.

We conduct gradings 3 times a year and provided the student has met the criteria (minimum training time) we consider them for selection.

Provided that we as instructors have done our job correctly, theoretically everyone should be able to demonstrate to the required standard and therefore pass.

Unfortunately this falls down as some (mainly younger) students, no matter how enthusiastic and motivational his or her instructor is, just decide to coast through lessons for whatever reason. These students will not be selected for grading and the reasons given to their parents - if they don't want to learn why waste money on bringing them and waste instructors time? While instructors are constantly trying to get their attention they are neglecting the needs of the more attentive students.

None of us want to end up providing a baby sitting service.

Students who scrape gradings are usually told exactly that and more effort, concentration etc is required or they will miss/fail their next grading. We usaully wait a few weeks before doing this so they get to "enjoy" their new grade without demotivating them.

We do fail several students over the course of the year, but before doing so we assess if it is in their and the clubs best interest. For example - If you have invested time and effort in someone over several years and then fail them for whatever reason they may give up. If we believe the failure will give them the kick up the backside they need, it may be a valuable lesson for them. We never charge for retests as we dont believe in making profit on the back of someone failing a grading.

I would suggest if everyone who takes a grading expects to pass that that may be counter productive, so that is why failures are an important part of gradings. Unless of course money is the motivator.

We try to instill the idea that belts are never given - they are earned through each individuals hard work and practice.

Such a shame that kids these days are used to turning up and getting a certificate or an award. Shame that life is not like that.

Just my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

So when you consider failing someone, if you fear they may quit if failed, does that alter your decision?

[Himokiri Karate]

I dont understand the whole "Testing" concept!

In Brazilian jujitsu, the instructor monitors you and in a random time once he sees your growing as a student.

He has everyone gather around...walks up to you,changes your belt and congradulates you and makes sure him and other students whip you GOOD with there belt!

Heeheheh, thats the way! I mean if your pulling moves of in sparring that are good,if your a helpful training partner and a good member overall then I dont see why you should "test"

[mal103]

We rarely fail people but won't allow them to grade if they are not up to it. If they are poor on the day then a temporary grade may be given and they will have to prove they can do parts of the grading in the following weeks, they will also need to have a good next grade or fail.

Gradings should ideally be seen as a celebration of reaching the skills level required and not a test.

It horrifies me when I see a senior grade going through hours and hours of grading in some sort of endurance test, or having to spar full contact with several other more senior students, i've heard one such case which was boardering on abuse.

[sakurakaratekai]

Hi bushido_man96

If im honest if I was really worried about students quitting if I failed them, it would be time to hang up my Belt and Gi. Hopefully they would respect me and the reasons why they failed, and that would motivate them to work harder towards retesting.

Sadly in todays society, kids (and some adults) are used just turning up for things and getting a medal or a prize for just "taking part". School teachers seem to concentrate on teaching the less gifted kids than encouraging the brighter kids to acheive more. It is also seems that they cannot praise their brighter kids as they are marginalising the less intelligent kids by exclusion - that or breaching their human rights. Unfortunately constantly praising and rewarding under-achievers that doesn't sit at all well within the framework of Traditional Karate.

In a nutshell - yes the fact that they may quit would be in the back of my mind. But would I still fail them - absolutely. Beacause in my opinion there really is no excuse for lack of effort no matter what the age of the student.

Its inevitable that some students will quit if failed but at least I won't have to spend months and years investing time and effort in them when they can't be bothered themselves. At least then I can spend my time teaching the students who turn up every week, listen attentively and train hard - thus raising the standard of Karate practiced in the Dojo.

Thats my opinion anyway, any thoughts?

[bushido_man96]

That answers my question, thank you.

[sensei8]

Life is a series of fails and successes...the MA is nothing different. It's how we respond to them that makes us whom we are in either one.