"You've Failed!!"

[DWx]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

I thought the instructor was suppose to determine if the student is ready to test? Sounds like a scam on testing fees if the instructor lets the student test even though the student isn't ready.

That's one angle I hadn't thought of and you are right. I think I would feel completely cheated as a student if that happened and my testing fee wasn't returned.

Why should you get your money back? You paid the examiner for their time and for them to judge you. They still performed their bit even though you weren't up to scratch. Why should they test you for free? If anything I'd do it the other way, use the testing fee as a deposit. If you don't pass the belt, the examiner gets to keep it because you've just wasted their time. Would make a lot of people try harder.

Just because you've paid your dues and turned up to test, doesn't mean you automatically get the belt. If you look crumble under the pressure and look shocking you shouldn't pass and they should get to keep the fee. If you fail your driving test you don't get your money back.

[Jeffrey]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

I thought the instructor was suppose to determine if the student is ready to test? Sounds like a scam on testing fees if the instructor lets the student test even though the student isn't ready.

That's one angle I hadn't thought of and you are right. I think I would feel completely cheated as a student if that happened and my testing fee wasn't returned.

Why should you get your money back? You paid the examiner for their time and for them to judge you. They still performed their bit even though you weren't up to scratch. Why should they test you for free? If anything I'd do it the other way, use the testing fee as a deposit. If you don't pass the belt, the examiner gets to keep it because you've just wasted their time. Would make a lot of people try harder.

Just because you've paid your dues and turned up to test, doesn't mean you automatically get the belt. If you look crumble under the pressure and look shocking you shouldn't pass and they should get to keep the fee. If you fail your driving test you don't get your money back.

Dwx, That was well said and I agree 100%

[Ueshirokarate]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

I thought the instructor was suppose to determine if the student is ready to test? Sounds like a scam on testing fees if the instructor lets the student test even though the student isn't ready.

That's one angle I hadn't thought of and you are right. I think I would feel completely cheated as a student if that happened and my testing fee wasn't returned.

Why should you get your money back? You paid the examiner for their time and for them to judge you. They still performed their bit even though you weren't up to scratch. Why should they test you for free? If anything I'd do it the other way, use the testing fee as a deposit. If you don't pass the belt, the examiner gets to keep it because you've just wasted their time. Would make a lot of people try harder.

Just because you've paid your dues and turned up to test, doesn't mean you automatically get the belt. If you look crumble under the pressure and look shocking you shouldn't pass and they should get to keep the fee. If you fail your driving test you don't get your money back.

Dwx, That was well said and I agree 100%

Quite honestly, if a student is trying their hardest and doing the best they can do week in and week out and you tell them they can test and then fail them, I'll bet they will feel cheated. I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think a good portion of your students won't feel that way. Obviously this is just my opinion and I clearly have a different opinion on the matter than some of you. Differences are what make the world go round.

I see the test as how they perform in the dojo at each and every class. Students to me are always testing if you will and if they aren't up to the next level, I wouldn't let them test. The only way I would ever fail someone at kyu level would be if they were displaying bad behavior during the test or refused to go through it. If they don't earn the next level on the deck week in and week out, they are failing the real test in my opinion won't be able to do what I see should be more a ceremonial test. Just the way I see it. This is just a different philosophy than some of you have and you have to run your dojo as you see best.

[Wastelander]

Since I am just an assistant instructor the only ranks I have ever tested people for were 9th-kyu and 8th-kyu in Shuri-Ryu, and that was still under the guidance of my Sensei at the time. That said, I did fail (or rather I recommended that they fail to my instructor) a couple kids in that process. I can also say that I have failed tests in the past and, while frustrating, it caused me to work even harder at what I failed on.

[DWx]

Quite honestly, if a student is trying their hardest and doing the best they can do week in and week out and you tell them they can test and then fail them, I'll bet they will feel cheated. I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think a good portion of your students won't feel that way. Obviously this is just my opinion and I clearly have a different opinion on the matter than some of you. Differences are what make the world go round.

I see the test as how they perform in the dojo at each and every class. Students to me are always testing if you will and if they aren't up to the next level, I wouldn't let them test. The only way I would ever fail someone at kyu level would be if they were displaying bad behavior during the test or refused to go through it. If they don't earn the next level on the deck week in and week out, they are failing the real test in my opinion won't be able to do what I see should be more a ceremonial test. Just the way I see it. This is just a different philosophy than some of you have and you have to run your dojo as you see best.

I don't think either way is wrong, its just down to personal preference in how you want to run your school. Just with the assessing in class model, why bother with a specific testing day? Why not just assess in class and leave it at that? Is it not cheating them out of money to insist that they come along to a testing and pay you to pass them for turning up?

For me, they do have to perform consistently well in class to even get invited to the test but once they're there they have to perform their best. We do all day testings, even for colour belts. The whole point of testing for us is to push yourself above and beyond and to see how everyone performs under pressure. We're also quite a large school with near 200 students and although everyone gets attention in class, grading is a whole nother level where a panel of 5+ people are scrutinizing everything you do. Its probably a lot better to assess in class as a testing model when you have smaller numbers but we just can't do it to that in our school and do it to a high standard. Got to spend our class time teaching, not just drilling.

I don't think they should feel cheated. Disappointed yes, but not cheated. The people who grade in my school know that there is a chance they'll fail if they don't perform on the day so its not like we're dangling a carrot in front of their face and then snatching it away. Its perfectly accessible to those who really want it and try hard. And failing isn't the end all and be all. Like I said in my earlier post, borderline fails get put on a probationary period where they can end up getting the belt after a few weeks. But the key issue is you have to work for it on the day. Any other studying you do in life; academic studying, driving tests, etc. and you've got to perform on the day.

[Ueshirokarate]

Quite honestly, if a student is trying their hardest and doing the best they can do week in and week out and you tell them they can test and then fail them, I'll bet they will feel cheated. I think you're kidding yourself if you don't think a good portion of your students won't feel that way. Obviously this is just my opinion and I clearly have a different opinion on the matter than some of you. Differences are what make the world go round.

I see the test as how they perform in the dojo at each and every class. Students to me are always testing if you will and if they aren't up to the next level, I wouldn't let them test. The only way I would ever fail someone at kyu level would be if they were displaying bad behavior during the test or refused to go through it. If they don't earn the next level on the deck week in and week out, they are failing the real test in my opinion won't be able to do what I see should be more a ceremonial test. Just the way I see it. This is just a different philosophy than some of you have and you have to run your dojo as you see best.

I don't think either way is wrong, its just down to personal preference in how you want to run your school. Just with the assessing in class model, why bother with a specific testing day? Why not just assess in class and leave it at that? Is it not cheating them out of money to insist that they come along to a testing and pay you to pass them for turning up?

For me, they do have to perform consistently well in class to even get invited to the test but once they're there they have to perform their best. We do all day testings, even for colour belts. The whole point of testing for us is to push yourself above and beyond and to see how everyone performs under pressure. We're also quite a large school with near 200 students and although everyone gets attention in class, grading is a whole nother level where a panel of 5+ people are scrutinizing everything you do. Its probably a lot better to assess in class as a testing model when you have smaller numbers but we just can't do it to that in our school and do it to a high standard. Got to spend our class time teaching, not just drilling.

I don't think they should feel cheated. Disappointed yes, but not cheated. The people who grade in my school know that there is a chance they'll fail if they don't perform on the day so its not like we're dangling a carrot in front of their face and then snatching it away. Its perfectly accessible to those who really want it and try hard. And failing isn't the end all and be all. Like I said in my earlier post, borderline fails get put on a probationary period where they can end up getting the belt after a few weeks. But the key issue is you have to work for it on the day. Any other studying you do in life; academic studying, driving tests, etc. and you've got to perform on the day.

Yes, it comes down to preference/philosophy.

[bushido_man96]

Ideally, an isntructor should make sure that if he allows a student to test, then he believs that student can pass the test. But, just because they have the ability to pass the test, doesn't guarantee they will pass the test.

I think part of the problem with today's society is that everyone tries to remove the fear of failure from everything we do. The fact of the matter is that failure still happens, whether we want to sugar coat everything or not. What we need to do be able to do is teach people how to deal with and overcome failure, instead of being afraid of it, and trying to get around it so everyone can feel good and equal and all that.

In closing, I say it is the instructor's responsibility to make sure a student is ready to test. It is not the instructor's responsibiltiy to pass the test; that lies with the student.

Another thought; in school, everyone takes the tests at the same time. Just because one person goofed off and didn't study, they don't get an extension for extra preparation. I know we don't teach Martial Arts in the same way, but why couldn't it work that way? I would say, if I was going to conduct my testings in this manner, I probably wouldn't charge for them. But what would be wrong with this way of testing?

[sensei8]

No Child Left Behind isn't a program for any martial art. Therefore, every student needs to understand that they might fail a test from time to time, and in that, that student will be left behind in their current kyu/dan, and hopefully, they'll pass their next testing cycle....but no guarantee's!!

[Harlan]

It wouldn't really be an issue if one is selective in accepting students in the first place.

The way I look at it, there are two strategies:

- Accept all that walk through the door and weed them out along the way. Accepting attrition as a fact, and letting them pay (you) for the privilege.

-Accept few students, testing from day one, and invest your resources into them to assure success.

[bushido_man96]

It wouldn't really be an issue if one is selective in accepting students in the first place.

The way I look at it, there are two strategies:

- Accept all that walk through the door and weed them out along the way. Accepting attrition as a fact, and letting them pay (you) for the privilege.

-Accept few students, testing from day one, and invest your resources into them to assure success.

This isn't a bad way to go about student selection, but your ability to so one or the other depends on if you have to have students to pay the bills or not. If you have a setup where breaking even is ok, then you can be more selective. If you are looking to turn a bit of a profit, then you may not have the option to be as selective. So, you have to strike that balance of having a good number of students, and keeping them interested in sticking around. Now, that doesn't mean you have to water down or be a McDojo, either. It just changes your approach to how you advertise or look for students.