"You've Failed!!"

[Chuck]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

Just wondering how many quit becuase they did not pass?

[sensei8]

Are these students coming from places other than your own school? It seems strange to allow someone to test if they aren't likely to pass.

That's a very fair question.

At my dojo, I test my students 3 times a year. Every Shindokan practitioner can test once a year at our Hombu every June/July. At any testing conducted at our Hombu, I'm usually the Chairman on the testing panel for all testing ranks.

Why would I/Hombu test anybody that might fail? It's like any other test for anything given in the USA. For example, imagine you're going to take a written test for your driver’s license or you’re going to take a written test for Algebra in high school. You study and you study and you study, then you feel that you’re ready for the test. You sign up, then you show up, and then you test. However, something happens, you blank out, you forget the answer to the simplest questions. You then turn in your test for a pass/fail grade, and then before you know it, you’ve failed the test.

You thought that you’d pass! Your instructor(s) thought that you’d pass! Your fellow students thought that you’d pass! Your parent(s) thought that you’d pass! However, when all is said and done; you’ve failed.

The resulted fail isn't what was hoped for, but it’s not the end of the world…it happens to the best of us all from time to time. It’s nothing to be ashamed about; continue practicing in preparation for the next testing cycle.

Sure, during the 3 months leading up to the next testing cycle, I teach you, I train you, and I review you; I’m confident that you’ll pass with flying colors, but then the unforeseeable happens…you forget, you panic, you freeze, and you fail.

Why is the martial arts so different? Why do some instructors/organizations only train for the testing cycle and not for effectiveness of technique(s)? Shindokan students must apply for each testing cycle, and in that, some are approved for the next testing cycle, however, some are disapproved for the next testing cycle for various reasons. It's those who've been approved for the next testing cycle that end up failing; not those that haven't been approved for the next testing cycle.

Things just happen, and in that, students end up failing the test. I don't give away belts; they must be earned!! I've failed a countless amount of tests myself, no student is immune from failing any said test.

[sensei8]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

Just wondering how many quit becuase they did not pass?

I don't know and I don't care; if a student quits, then the student quits, it's up to them. If a student is looking for a free pass and looking for me to just give them a belt in order for me to retain them as a student, well, they're barking up the wrong tree, they've come to the wrong style of the martial arts. In Shindokan, you must earn every belt!!

[DWx]

Are these students coming from places other than your own school? It seems strange to allow someone to test if they aren't likely to pass.

That's a very fair question.

At my dojo, I test my students 3 times a year. Every Shindokan practitioner can test once a year at our Hombu every June/July. At any testing conducted at our Hombu, I'm usually the Chairman on the testing panel for all testing ranks.

Why would I/Hombu test anybody that might fail? It's like any other test for anything given in the USA. For example, imagine you're going to take a written test for your driver’s license or you’re going to take a written test for Algebra in high school. You study and you study and you study, then you feel that you’re ready for the test. You sign up, then you show up, and then you test. However, something happens, you blank out, you forget the answer to the simplest questions. You then turn in your test for a pass/fail grade, and then before you know it, you’ve failed the test.

You thought that you’d pass! Your instructor(s) thought that you’d pass! Your fellow students thought that you’d pass! Your parent(s) thought that you’d pass! However, when all is said and done; you’ve failed.

The resulted fail isn't what was hoped for, but it’s not the end of the world…it happens to the best of us all from time to time. It’s nothing to be ashamed about; continue practicing in preparation for the next testing cycle.

Sure, during the 3 months leading up to the next testing cycle, I teach you, I train you, and I review you; I’m confident that you’ll pass with flying colors, but then the unforeseeable happens…you forget, you panic, you freeze, and you fail.

Why is the martial arts so different? Why do some instructors/organizations only train for the testing cycle and not for effectiveness of technique(s)? Shindokan students must apply for each testing cycle, and in that, some are approved for the next testing cycle, however, some are disapproved for the next testing cycle for various reasons. It's those who've been approved for the next testing cycle that end up failing; not those that haven't been approved for the next testing cycle.

Things just happen, and in that, students end up failing the test. I don't give away belts; they must be earned!! I've failed a countless amount of tests myself, no student is immune from failing any said test.

Great post Bob Even though the person might not pass the belt this time, it doesn't mean that people didn't think they weren't ready for it yet. It is like any other test in life. Not everyone passes their driving test first time. I can tell you all now that I screwed up on my last set of uni exams and got less than I'd hoped for even though I knew I knew the material and my tutors knew I knew the material. Things just happen on the day. That's life.

Besides I think the ones that were borderline pass/fail and failed tend to be better in the long run because, providing they don't quit in the interim, they tend to work really hard to make damn sure they get the belt next time. Next time they step up in front of the examiner to test for the same belt, they often appear 10x better than they were before. Failing also means more time practicing at that level and more time practicing makes for a better student.

We've just had a colour belt testing at our school and a couple failed. Can read here if you're interested: http://www.karateforums.com/colour-belt-grading-time-vt41198.html

Not sure how my instructor goes about telling them... never happened to me and its not something I've wanted to ask before. I do know that the borderline fails get a sort of probationary period where they may end up getting the belt after a few weeks but if not they just have to wait for the next testing period.

[Spodo Komodo]

I do know that the borderline fails get a sort of probationary period where they may end up getting the belt after a few weeks but if not they just have to wait for the next testing period.

Thats the way I used to do it when I was sitting on grading panels. If I had seen someone do all the required elements to the required standard before the grading and during the grading they just had a brain-freeze or something but they showed good spirit* then I would defer a pass. This meant withholding their belt until they could show me that they could perform the techniques flawlessly. If they hadn't done that by the next grading it was counted as a fail.

If theyjust came into the grading and didn't really try, showed poor spirit or tried to make lame excuses then they failed outright and had to wait for the next grading to try again. I only graded up to 1st kyu (being a 1st dan at the time), I gather the dan gradings were just pass/fail.

*good spirit includes keeping a cool head, civil tongue, observing dojo etiquette, not trying to cheat by hiding or copying and not throwing a tantrum afterwards.

[Ueshirokarate]

Shouldn't a student be testing on the deck each and every class and belt tests be more ceremonial? It just seems better to require your students to have to ask permission to test and you tell them that they can or not based on where they are. I can see failing someone for blatantly not trying on a belt test, being a wise mouth that day, etc, but for a mistake or something when they have executed things on the deck 100 times perfectly and always show great spirit, just doesn't make sense to me.

[bushido_man96]

Shouldn't a student be testing on the deck each and every class and belt tests be more ceremonial? It just seems better to require your students to have to ask permission to test and you tell them that they can or not based on where they are. I can see failing someone for blatantly not trying on a belt test, being a wise mouth that day, etc, but for a mistake or something when they have executed things on the deck 100 times perfectly and always show great spirit, just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it this way. But, I also see the value of putting the pressure on in a testing situation. I think its important for someone to learn what that nervousness feels like, and be able to overcome it in that testing environment. Learning how to "step up" is good for character development, as well.

[Ueshirokarate]

Shouldn't a student be testing on the deck each and every class and belt tests be more ceremonial? It just seems better to require your students to have to ask permission to test and you tell them that they can or not based on where they are. I can see failing someone for blatantly not trying on a belt test, being a wise mouth that day, etc, but for a mistake or something when they have executed things on the deck 100 times perfectly and always show great spirit, just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think there is anything wrong with doing it this way. But, I also see the value of putting the pressure on in a testing situation. I think its important for someone to learn what that nervousness feels like, and be able to overcome it in that testing environment. Learning how to "step up" is good for character development, as well.

I didn't say that you had to tell the students this and I was speaking about kyu ranks only.

[Willard814]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

I thought the instructor was suppose to determine if the student is ready to test? Sounds like a scam on testing fees if the instructor lets the student test even though the student isn't ready.

[Ueshirokarate]

Martial Arts instructors that are worth their salt will have to utter these words from time to time..."You've failed!" to one or more students during a testing cycle.

I've done it more times than I can count, and yes, I'm sure that you've done it as well.

Because our testing and awards ceremonies are conducted on separate days, I'm fortunate to invite the testing candidate(s), and their parents, if the testing candidates are minors, into my office a few hours before the awards ceremonies.

In my office, I'll conduct a private "failed" interview in a serious and professional tone because this is a serious situation, and my students as well as their parents, deserve that. This interview is a 6 step interview:

*I thank the candidates, and their parent(s), for their attending both the testing cycle as well as this interview.

*Then, I'll give them their grades for Kihon, then Kata, then Kumite, and if necessary...then Tuite, then Kyusho Jitsu, then Tameshiwara, then Weapons, then Essays, and then their Final Grade. This is where I'll inform them that they've failed this testing cycle.

*I'll then point out to them the areas of concern and how they can go about turning these low scores into passing scores. The only way that I know how to do this is by one thing...PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!

*I'll then point out to them their areas of success and how well they did in each of those area's.

*I'll then open the floor for any and all questions/comments they and/or their parent(s) might have; professionalism must be adhered to by all during this stage without any ambiguity whatsoever.

*I'll close out the interview by thanking them again and I'll also encourage them to continue with training and lessons.

This can be an emotional interview across the board, however, it's a necessary interview. A student can be lost to irrational feelings, as well as a new sense of worthlessness envelopes them. Here's where a bad instructor will lose students quite quickly, and where a good instructor will retain a student(s) that have failed their testing cycle.

Tests, unfortunately, only have two outcomes: Pass or fail. This applies to tests and not to their mortal coil. Students are to important across the board, and in that, the student is always before the martial arts; this is how it should be for every student, every day, and every time.

How do inform your student(s) who've failed their rank tests?

I thought the instructor was suppose to determine if the student is ready to test? Sounds like a scam on testing fees if the instructor lets the student test even though the student isn't ready.

That's one angle I hadn't thought of and you are right. I think I would feel completely cheated as a student if that happened and my testing fee wasn't returned.