Actual effect of adrenaline on the body

[DWx]

So reading through back issues of Totally TKD magazine (issue 3 can be downloaded here), there's an article (pg 35) where the author says this:

Briefly, under Adrenal Stress, adrenaline is being dumped into the body by the nervous system. This occurs in situations like being attacked, and there are certain physiological changes that occur. One change is that large motions become smaller. As part of RMCAT training, the motions were practiced in an exaggerated fashion. The theory being that if they are practiced normally, then, under stress they become small and therefore ineffective. By practicing them in large fashion exaggerating the body mechanics, then, under stress they will become smaller, yet still effective.

How true is this? Anyone know of any studies or research where its shown that adrenaline makes movements smaller? I can appreciate that it sorta makes sense but its not something that I've heard of before.

[joesteph]

When I looked up Adrenal Stress on the Internet, DWx, I found it as a negative:

From "What Is Adrenal Stress?" at:

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-adrenal-stress.htm

Adrenal stress is also commonly known as adrenal fatigue. . . .

 

From a biological standpoint, sources of stress are danger, fear, [and] outside attackers . . . The brain becomes more active . . . When the stress or threat is over, the adrenal glands release their hormones to lower the heart rate and drop the blood pressure level, allowing the body to relax and recharge. . . .

 

If the adrenal glands are under-performing, the body remains in a heightened state of stress. Over a period of time, the person becomes anxious, tired and prone to depression.

There's more info at "The Adrenal/Thyroid Connection":

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/shamesadrenal.htm

I've never read Quinn's books, but I still have two VHS tapes of his, so he's familiar to me. His RMCAT (Rocky Mountain Combat Applications Training) facility is what's referred to in the article on p. 38.

In one of the Quinn tapes that I have, "Self-Defense Against the Sucker Puncher," I remember well that he pointed out how form "breaks down" when in an actual situation. He emphasized that if form isn't right when practicing, then it'll break down to nothing when you need it. That's the closest I can see in terms of large movements becoming smaller and there's adrenaline pumping.

It makes me think of how in Tai Chi so many times people refer to the movements as circular. In a past discussion with a friend of mine who took Tai Chi, he concluded that the movements are actually "straight" for self-defense, but for flow they're practiced "circular." I told him I think they're performed as an ellipse. That would cut corners (make "smaller") on a circular ("large") motion.

[sperki]

Dwx, my perspective on adrenaline is strictly based on pre-hospital medicine and anatomy/physiology courses. But I can't think of any reason that adrenaline would make movements smaller. Its physiologic affect is to increase heart rate and contraction strenth, dilate bronchioles (so you transfer more oxygen into your blood stream with each breath), and increase cellular metabolism (you have more energy immediately available). It is typically released in your body by the sympathetic nervous system, which controls your fight or flight response. This works to constrict some blood vessels, like those to your GI tract, while dilating muscles around your heart and skeletal system.

What all of that means is...you should be ready to kick butt or run away, but there is NO reason the size of a particular motion would decrease.

[JusticeZero]

Motion size doesn't increase, but you lose precision, time sense (this is why you should take a DEEP BREATH, consciously relax your shoulders, and SIGH IT OUT at the start of any altercation) and the ability to think tactically and adjust to changing circumstances. Whatever you decide to do first, you'll probably keep trying to do repeatedly regardless of circumstances. Your movements will NOT be clean and crisp; they will most likely be panicky and flaily and poorly constructed. If you overbuild the movements, it is hoped that a panicky movement will still be structurally refined enough to be effective.

Also, if you second-guess your trained response, your trained response will completely go away and leave you with nothing.

If your panic level gets too high, you will completely come apart.

[tonydee]

Given my training, I believe the explanation for how I tend to feel in real fight situations is found in endorphins. I've almost always felt very chilled out, very alert; time slows down and things seem very easy. It's no effort to apply my training... there's no hint of reversion to some more basic core of cave-man techniques . Everything perfectly controlled and precise (though so says the drunk driver too... what should I make of that?). Once I was so chilled out I didn't have anything at all to say to someone who was trying to thump me so he could make a get-away after a shop robbery, despite the whole thing carrying on for a couple minutes, and him swearing at me and talking about the gun in his pocket (or did he say knife - told the girl in the shop one and me the other; whatever - he didn't produce anything). Cut my arm when I punched through his car window - didn't bother me in the slightest either. One good thing about endorphins is that you are aware though - I've heard it's possible to get stabbed when you're having an adrenalin rush and not even be aware of it until the bleeding's got you near fainting...?

A down side of endorphins is that - sans anger - you don't necessarily feel like hurting the other person. If you're not very good at your arts, and they actually pose a real risk, they might get you in more trouble by causing you to delay finishing the opponent off.

My guess would be that much of my dojo time also floats by under endorphins' gentle influence.

I've always assumed that the body would either release endorphins or adrenalin, but not both, but that's just a hunch.

I suspect endorphin release is not uncommon in the "internal" arts too, so even if there is a tightening from adrenalin, maybe tai chi practitioners wouldn't need to worry about it...?

A couple other times "on the street" I've definitely had an adrenalin reaction - though those times didn't evolve into physical fights.

Separately, in a fight situation people sometimes try to explode into their movements even harder than during training, so there's a touch more violent back-swing. Some extra tightness might actually help to keep that safe, increasing the plyometric response too.

Also on topic, famous/controvertial tai chi master Earl Montigue once wrote columns (for Australian Fighting Arts magazine if I remember correctly, but it's >20 years ago). I remember being disappointed that he basically said "I don't have to stretch to kick head high, because in a fight the body releases all these wonderful hormones that let me kick high safely anyway"... bit of a "let's denigrate what we can't be bothered to practice" aspect to that if you ask me. The physical ability to kick high is only the starting point for learning how to apply such kicks effectively in a combat situation, and you can't develop it if you can't do it in practice.

It's good to train in a way compatible with the adrenalin or endorphin response you might get in combat, but it's not a good idea to rely on it. As you get better and more experienced as a martial artist, you're much less likely to have a strong hormonal response anyway... it'll just be like another cup of tea. A bit off topic, but a simile I can't help wanting to share: I read about one of those guys who walks on hot coals. He got increasingly confident about it, until after 20 or 30 walks he suddenly got very badly burnt. Turns out the ability depends on the body getting sweaty through the nervous tension that builds in anticipation. He lacked the nerves, hence no sweat, so no protective layer of steam providing some strange insulation against the actual heat....

Because of the different reactions, and the tendency for self confidence and experience to affect them, instructors need to be careful about assuming they understand what their students might go through in a fight.

Cheers,

Tony