Villari's Self Defense Centers

[tigerclaw2]

TB, I heard grand master villari lives in florida and vists his 3 schools down there for clinics quite often. If you have a chance try to see if you can croos train there?

That would be cool to learn from the real creater of shaolin kempo.

[kungfufist3]

He should open up his clinics to everyone.

[tigerclaw2]

To true. There are alot of breakoff schools who would like to train with grandmaster villari but dont want to be part of any organization. They just want teach and do their own thing and not have to pay all these franchise fees. He would make alot more money if he opened his seminars to everyone.

[ninjamac]

I like to train with grandmaster villari I only hope It's not as big as matteras clinics where he doesn't interact with you he's on a stage.

[formerkarateka]

As someone who was long ago associated with the Villari schools, and for the heck of it, "googled" Villari today, I find the discussions a bit interesting. I started as a student around 1974 in Massachusetts, and eventually got to 2nd degree black, before leaving in 1983. I've been out of martial arts ever since.

Funny how you are all talking about it getting commercialized, because we thought that was the case over 20 years ago. I guess it can only be worse. When I started, the ranking system was white, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, black. Then, they introduced what I think was called a more chinese system, which added yellow, blue/green stripe. I don;'t know if the brown ranks expanded or not. But, we all grumbled that the reason for the change was that more belts meant more tests, and more tests meant more test fees.

I don't know about other schools, but our instructor basically relied on slave labor. We (generally once we got to brown belt) were asked to "help out", and generally, helping out meant teaching for free. I spent many, many hour teaching. Never got paid a cent. Never even got a free lesson. I was told that teaching was a way for me to learn.

When I say "help out", I don't mean I taught a lesson here or there. I had regular private-lesson students. And "private lessons"? Interesting term. When I first started, I thought it meant you had a one-on-one lesson with the instructor. But then sooner or later another student got added to your lesson. Sometimes a third. Sure, there are advantages to having someone to work with. But, the instructor didn't give us any discount. Did we pay half and a third with more students? Of course not. The instructor just made more per hour.

I can't speak for many other instructors. Ours may have been a bigger cheapskate. I do know of a couple guys who seemed interested in the art more than the money.

[octopic]

Funny how you are all talking about it getting commercialized, because we thought that was the case over 20 years ago. I guess it can only be worse.

I don't know if it is actually worse now. My guess is that it goes in cycles. It all depends on the current school owners/instructors.

When I started, the ranking system was white, orange, purple, blue, green, brown, black. Then, they introduced what I think was called a more chinese system, which added yellow, blue/green stripe. I don;'t know if the brown ranks expanded or not. But, we all grumbled that the reason for the change was that more belts meant more tests, and more tests meant more test fees.

The ranking system is now white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, blue/green, green, green/brown, brown 3rd, brown 2nd, brown 1st, black. It's been that way for at least the last 14 years.

I don't know about other schools, but our instructor basically relied on slave labor. We (generally once we got to brown belt) were asked to "help out", and generally, helping out meant teaching for free. I spent many, many hour teaching. Never got paid a cent. Never even got a free lesson. I was told that teaching was a way for me to learn.

When I say "help out", I don't mean I taught a lesson here or there. I had regular private-lesson students. And "private lessons"? Interesting term. When I first started, I thought it meant you had a one-on-one lesson with the instructor. But then sooner or later another student got added to your lesson. Sometimes a third. Sure, there are advantages to having someone to work with. But, the instructor didn't give us any discount. Did we pay half and a third with more students? Of course not. The instructor just made more per hour.

I haven't heard of anyone besides black belt instructors having regular private students (and yeah, privates can be mroe than one person, which is why they're commonly called Advanced Training Program instead). When I hit black belt, I got reduced tuition rates which was supposed to compensate me for the teaching that I did. It wasn't anywhere near what I 'made' in my nromal job, but I did it because I wanted to.

I can't speak for many other instructors. Ours may have been a bigger cheapskate. I do know of a couple guys who seemed interested in the art more than the money.

My guess would be that your instructor did it because he could get away with it. If you're ever interested in getting back into it, I'm sure that I could help you out finding a decent instructor in your area.

[formerkarateka]

It all depends on the current school owners/instructors.

That was certainly true when I was involved. Actually, my instructor was not bad when it came to the "art". He just took advantage of a lot of us by getting us to teach for free.

There were others I knew back then that I respected. I started training with a guy named Rino Tonelli, though I don't see any evidence that he is still teaching. As a black belt, I worked out for a little while with Armen Heroian, who runs a school in California. He was very good and intensely dedicated to the art. I would expect he is a great instructor. I do remember one guy who came out of our dojo who had his own Villari franchise, that got himself beat up in a bar. I'm not sure if his skills were weak or he was just really drunk. But, it was rather embarassing, because some people I know in the town where it happened had a field day with it.

The ranking system is now white, yellow, orange, purple, blue, blue/green, green, green/brown, brown 3rd, brown 2nd, brown 1st, black. It's been that way for at least the last 14 years.

I forgot about green/brown, but that was part of the "new" ranking system, which apparently has not changed in at least 25 years. It did change when I was there, and it had the appearance of being a way to make a bit more money for the dojo.

I haven't heard of anyone besides black belt instructors having regular private students

I had a regular private lesson student when I was a brown belt. I took him up through purple, I think. I stopped teaching regularly, because I didn't like being committed to teaching for free, and found a way to weasle out of it. My instructor gave me a hard time about it.

But, I wasn't the only one. By the time I made brown belt, our dojo had several brown and black belts. There were at least 3 to 5 others teaching in addition to me and the owner. And most of the others were teaching more than me.

My guess would be that your instructor did it because he could get away with it.

I think he knew that he could teach more students and make a lot more money by getting "free" help. And he took advantage. Again, I think he was a decent martial artist. Just a bit of dishonest. It helped me as a martial artist to teach for free. But not him, of course.

If you're ever interested in getting back into it, I'm sure that I could help you out finding a decent instructor in your area.

Thanks for the offer. Sometimes I miss it, but I've actually been out of MA longer than I was in. Started at age 19, quit at 29. Now I'm 50. Even if I had the time, I'm not sure my body could take it

[formerkarateka]

One other thing that happened while I was associated with the Villari schools, is they once referred to their style as Kenpo. Then it became Kempo. Always thought that was a bit strange. I never really understood the explanation.

Also, when I started (around 1977), it was called United Studios of Self Defense. A few years later they changed the name to Fred Villari's School of Self Defense. Villari was always in charge, but I guess he liked seeing his name on the signs, or maybe someone convinced him that the formula worked well for Ed Parker. Mattera was still with Villari at the time of the name change, and a while beyond that. I didn't know until recently that he had left. But, apparently he liked the old name!

[tigerclaw2]

One other thing that happened while I was associated with the Villari schools, is they once referred to their style as Kenpo. Then it became Kempo. Always thought that was a bit strange. I never really understood the explanation.

Also, when I started (around 1977), it was called United Studios of Self Defense. A few years later they changed the name to Fred Villari's School of Self Defense. Villari was always in charge, but I guess he liked seeing his name on the signs, or maybe someone convinced him that the formula worked well for Ed Parker. Mattera was still with Villari at the time of the name change, and a while beyond that. I didn't know until recently that he had left. But, apparently he liked the old name!

Was mattera a partner with villari or just a top instructor?

Do you know when they started calling it shaolin kempo?

Do you know what happened to rudy horn?

[octopic]

There were others I knew back then that I respected. I started training with a guy named Rino Tonelli, though I don't see any evidence that he is still teaching. As a black belt, I worked out for a little while with Armen Heroian, who runs a school in California. He was very good and intensely dedicated to the art. I would expect he is a great instructor.

Master Heroian is a great instructor and runs a very successful school out in LA. I had the 'pleasure' of having him proctor my black belt test a few years ago. I don't recognize the other name that you mentioned.

In regards to your age and getting back into it. There are many people who start martial arts in their 50's or 60's. It is just a matter of being honest with yourself and with your instructor as to what you can and can't do. Of course I'm sitting here writing this as someone in their late 20's. Maybe I should look at this post in 30 years