Flexibility - problems with kicking

[dave_pfc]

Hi, does anyone else have problems with kicking (esp kicking high)? During the warm up I really struggle with leg stretches such as doing sideways splits (plus walking back on hands between legs), from standing straight to figures to the floor, head to the knees and so on. From sitting on the floor with legs apart my ability to bring my head to the left or right knees is appalling!

It feels like my body just isn't flexible but I'm in my 20's and there's people much older than me who are capable. The only kicks I'm good with is mae geri and kekomi which incidently are the easy ones. I find Kekomi to the head quite difficult though. I find mawashi geri the hardest. Ushiro mawashi geri I can do well with my right leg but not so with my left.

Given that kicking is a large portion of karate it's something I really want to improve on. Any tips for getting better flexibility would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Dave

[qbushido]

not the answer you were hoping to hear but....

the only advice I can give is to keep kicking and keep stretching, there are also some good books on stretching and flexibility from a guy named Pavel, just google pavel flexibility and it should come up. roundhouse kicks are tough mechanically, dont get frustrated and give up. Good technique and balance are more important than height.

[dave_pfc]

Thank you I'll look him up. Definitely not looking to give it up. Hope to crack it gradually

[giridas]

I'm 40 and have been challenged by flexibility issues since I began martial arts training in my 20's. It's only just recently that I'm finding really effective ways to improve. I can tell you what's worked for me but the key thing is you have to be aware of your own particular issues and how you address them.

1. Stretching isn't enough, it's how you stretch that counts. Don't go in too deep too fast, and make sure you breathe through your stretch. Often during in-class warmups it's impossible to get a good, productive stretch - things are just too rushed. Take some time on your own to stretch your tight muscles mindfully. Find that point where the stretching sensation transitions into pain and back off a bit. Stay there and play with your body position & breath to make sure you're relaxed & have good structure. Don't just do a stretch, know it in all its phases.

2. One cause of chronic muscle tightness can be chronic weakness in antagonistic muscles. I saw this all the time when I was a massage therapist. In my case as a karateka, I think my tight adductors (groin muscles) are worsened by weak abductors (muscles that raise the leg out to the side. As I've worked on strengthening the abducotrs, my flexibility in getting my legs apart is improving. Remember, the body keeps muscles tight protectively if it senses that it's moving into an unstable/potentially dangerous position. So by increasing your overall strength & stability, you create the conditions for your body to open up more.

3. Keep at it. To really change your flexibility requires discipline & patience, but you can do it. And in the meantime, keep kicking & working on your technique. Though my static flexibility is still relatively poor, I can maegeri to the level of my own chin, and mawashigeri to the level of my ribs, easily.

[DWx]

Good post giridas. Dave, there are lots of ways to stretch so try a different stretch if a particular one isn't working for you. I can't really do the box splits type stretch so I use alternatives to try to stretch out the same muscle groups. Just slowly keep working at it and it'll eventually come.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Elasticsteel

I find this guys videos on stretching pretty useful as he explains it all well. (and he actually has an MA background too).

[tonydee]

Definitely worthwhile getting some books, or if your patient you can piece it together from the usenet FAQ, which has been around for donkeys years, capturing lots of good knowledge, but talks more about what to stretch, for how long and hard, and sadly not so much about individual exercises to stretch those muscles, but you can google around and find that information too.

The kinds of things to look out for: order of stretching so you're stretching the connecting muscles on either end first, isolating the muscle, applying maximum leverage, breathing/relaxation/tension patterns. For example, stretching your head down towards (past) your knees: work into it with a buttock stretch, then a calf stretch, then sit on a bench and straighten the leg with the ankle hanging loosely forward (so the calf isn't being stretched at the same time), then reach underneath to get leverage to pull yourself down (keeping back straight, chin forwards). You should acquaint yourself with "PNF" principles (or variations) if you want timely results (including the safety precautions).

It rarely takes more than 2 or 3 months to reach a good level of flexibility for martial arts if you work at it correctly and a few times a week, but a good stretch can take more than an hour. You've got to want to make progress, and invest your time and effort wisely in the right exercises.

Cheers,

Tony

[mudansha]

I too am completely inflexible. I have assumed the entire time that my kicking problems were solely based on the flexibility issue.

That was until....

I was in a kumite match with a kid (I am 32, he is 17) and I just wanted to scare him a bit, so I threw my leg up to do a roundhouse kick and I placed my instep right across his cheek and barely tapped it. He is my height so you can guess that I was very very surprised.

As it turned out, when doing bag work, I am trying to nail the bag. As such, my muscles were tight all of the time, and you cannot be tight, and flexible. Because my mind was out of the equation (I was just taking it easy on the kid) and I was loose and relaxed, it just happened.

I have yet to duplicate the feat, but I now know my body is capable; its my mind and my lack of skill that is preventing me from doing it every time.

[foxriverselfdefense]

Stretching is always the most important thing.

I too have trouble with these kicks but sometimes its the weather or temp of the school that can make a bit of a difference and also how often you train.

I notice when I train twice in one day I have a huge problem training the next day and it takes 20 min or so to loosen up properly.

I suggest just stretching on the days you don't train.

Good Luck

[still kicking]

I just found out, on x-ray, that I have "mild to moderate" hip arthritis, with some bone spurs. Ouch, no wonder it hurts so much to do those roundhouse kicks. It's not so bad from fighting stance, but when we do them in basics, standing in shoulder stance, then trying to get the top part of the leg out to 90 degrees -- forget it! Fortunately I am now under doctor's orders to not do them or side kicks for 4-6 weeks, then see. I am spending a lot of extra time on front and back kicks!

Anyway, it's not so bad really. On a good night when I am well warmed up I can do them OK on the right side, sometimes even to head level. It's mostly the left that's really messed up. At least it confirms why no amount of regular stretching has helped all that much.

The good news is that I have found something that is helping. It's yoga, but specifically "yin yoga". This involves gentle poses, held for a long time, that is supposed to specifically focus on loosening the joints and stretching the connective tissue. It feels a little looser after only a few weeks, though I am also doing PT. I think I need them both.

[mr_obvious]

Dang, I feel ya. This time of year, with the colder temps....pretty much anything I do cardio or MA-related, reeeeeealy angers my left hip. Grrrrrrr!