Japanese Martial Arts

[Ichi_Geki]

Kara Te, is the name given to it when it arrived in japan. It was classified by Tomari, Shuri or Naha Te. Or just plain te.

The character 唐 referes to the Tang dynesty in China, and can be pronounced To (as seen in Tode, referecencing your use of "Te") OR Kara.

Also as I said above, the Japanese would not have considered karate a "classic" martial art since such arts were no longer used in combat.

Thats exactly what I said basically in my first post...

Kara Te was never a martial art. Ju Jutsu was practiced as a martial art. But never Kara Te.

[armanox]

Karate was a martial art to the denizens of the Ryukyu Islands. It is an Okinawan art, not Japanese.

[Ichi_Geki]

Karate was a martial art to the denizens of the Ryukyu Islands. It is an Okinawan art, not Japanese.

In the okinawan language there is no term as Kara meaning empty. Japanese prounounce te as teh, Okinawans pronounce it as tee.

Karate is the japanese version of te. Thus making it Japanese. It was not given the name Karate till it reached the mainland. In Okinawan is was called 唐手 meaning chinese hand. When it reached the mainland it was known as 空手 empty hand.

At the time Funakoshi was trying to explore the mainlands with his Karate, Japan had just invaded China, and manchuria...thus the name "Chinese hand" would not go over very well. So he had to change it over to something more appeasing to his cliental shall we say?

Seisan was turned into Hangetsu

Wanchu turned into empi

Naihanchi turned into tekki

Pinan into heian.

Those are just a few of the examples, that Funakoshi did to change the chinese and okinawan names into Japanese names. Thus making this version of Te or chinese hand "Karate"...making it Japanese.

[armanox]

In the okinawan language there is no term as Kara meaning empty. Japanese prounounce te as teh, Okinawans pronounce it as tee.

Karate is the japanese version of te. Thus making it Japanese. It was not given the name Karate till it reached the mainland. In Okinawan is was called 唐手 meaning chinese hand. When it reached the mainland it was known as 空手 empty hand.

At the time Funakoshi was trying to explore the mainlands with his Karate, Japan had just invaded China, and manchuria...thus the name "Chinese hand" would not go over very well. So he had to change it over to something more appeasing to his cliental shall we say?

Seisan was turned into Hangetsu

Wanchu turned into empi

Naihanchi turned into tekki

Pinan into heian.

Those are just a few of the examples, that Funakoshi did to change the chinese and okinawan names into Japanese names. Thus making this version of Te or chinese hand "Karate"...making it Japanese.

We seem to be debating in a circle...

My point. 唐 and 空 are homophones. I am not arguing that Funokoshi changed some names, (as a Shorin practitioner it is not so important. Just that the pronunciation "Kara Te" is most likely much older then Funokoshi.

On a similar note - I could argue that Kendo, Aikido, and Judo do not qualify as martial arts either - they all evolved after the Classical Combat Era ended in Japan. Also, name wise, Karatedo, Kendo, Aikido, Judo, etc; are "ways", vs Kenjutsu, Jujutsu, Iaijutsu, etc.

[Ichi_Geki]

The only recorded instance of age for the term Kara Te is when it first arrived in Japan, with funakoshi. This is what I am saying.

Ju Jutsu is a martial art. hence the jutsu part at the end and it is practiced in todays military as was it practiced by the bushi of Japan. And hence the japanese/okinawan difference of bushi.

Japanese = Samurai

Okinawan = Master of Te.

Kendo, Aikido, and Judo are not martial arts. Although I cannot say much for Judo I am not well versed in the history of it. But with Kendo and AIkido I am...but if you notice, those above three stemmed from Jutsu..Kenjutsu, Aiki jutsu, and Ju jutsu. So maybe in a pre feudal time they were practiced by the military who are we to say they weren't or were unless we have publicized truths?

I want facts over opinions. But opinions are always welcomed.

If you change okinawan karate and turn it to fit the needs of the japanese then it turns into japanese karate.

Just like if you tweak a traditional kata...is it still traditional...NO...same thing. What was once then, and now changed, it will not be the same...

[emjay]

I didn't know that swimming was listed as a martial arts; very interesting to me.

The decathalon (5 sport olympic event) is a combination of pistol marksmanship, equestrain riding, fencing, SWIMMING and RUNNING. It was originally used as a military training system in Germany for horse-back messengers. Not of military use anymore, that's true. But, like I said, you'd be suprised what skills have been considered "martial arts" at one time or another.

Just a little useless knowledge there.

[Ichi_Geki]

I didn't know that swimming was listed as a martial arts; very interesting to me.

The decathalon (5 sport olympic event) is a combination of pistol marksmanship, equestrain riding, fencing, SWIMMING and RUNNING. It was originally used as a military training system in Germany for horse-back messengers. Not of military use anymore, that's true. But, like I said, you'd be suprised what skills have been considered "martial arts" at one time or another.

Just a little useless knowledge there.

Thanks. Very USEFUL NOT USELESS...haha. You'd be surprised at how interesting these topics truly become with posts like these.

[mauro1]

Karate was remained outlawed for awhile because of the meiji period so... explains why its not considerd full fledged martial art at the time but now it is one because its not okinawan it japanese becuase karate its self isnt a style, first styles were names after cities they wer practiced in, okinawa te,shuri te, naha te... get the point. It was a chinese art first and thanks to funakoshi he made it a Japanese art. Read "Karate Do; My way of Life" it has the information im telling you guys so im not lieing its A japanese martial art and it is practiced in there military, it is part of their culture and significant hitorical value and japanese pride that so it will be in there military no matter what you tell me.

[WireFrame]

While Karate is from Okinawa, Im surprised Judo isn't there.

[KarateGeorge]

Well, Judo is more of a modern art, so it doesn't surpise me. Its roots would trace back to Ju Jitsu.