Groin kicking in sparring

[JusticeZero]

Thank you for that, Patrick; I never know how many people gloss over or don't read threads for whatever reason that they could have really contributed to, and I don't really know names enough to call people out for anything.

[JoiH]

Yeah, it seems like it's mostly just women who think that kicking to the groin is a real fight winner..

Ok- I am a woman who has been training for 17 years. I do NOT think that kicking to the groin is a fight winner- to think that all women naturally go for the groin is a bit insulting. Men naturally protect that area, so if you really want to win a fight go for the throat (I am obviously quite comfortable with my violent side LOL). BUT....a groin kick is a valuable and viable technique that should be allowed in sparring. Like any technique, it must be trained and MUST be controlled. If the individual has trouble using control then they need to brush up on their technique before they go into the ring. We all take the chance of getting hurt when we spar, and getting hurt by a groin kick is just as likely as getting hit in the nose. I am pretty small (5'2) but take the chance of getting hurt by my much larger (and male) sparring partners. Any technique should be allowed in sparring as long as there is control. I will not use a technique in the ring if I am unsure of my control. And I do not auomatically go for the groin- my personal fave is a nice reverse punch to the solar plexus

[Shotokan-kez]

RIGHT THEN!!! Lol I'm also a woman and have been practising for around 15 years and has NEVER thought kicking a man to that area a fight winner! I agree with JoiH, I also think its insulting a little and i think it's a real cheap shot if a woman does that to a man in a sparring situation. It's like a woman getting punched full force to the chest, even with protection this can hurt and cause damage, and vice versa.

Groin contact isn't allowed in competitions, so why do it in the dojo? I would try to find another way to get the person, a sweep or something. You can win a kumite fight in the dojo without using cheap shots like that, and if all students respect each other then why would they?

I will however say that groin techniques in the street are brilliant, if done properly you can put your attacker down and get away. We are taught this in the dojo but for self defence techniques only.

I would never do it for real...i don't like it!

[JusticeZero]

Sigh.. not quite what I was trying to say, which was that - I've only encountered a few groin-hunters before, but they were all female. Most women don't, but when you do find someone who does that, they seem to overwhelmingly be female.

Still don't think groin shots are al that effective for self defence - it's a hit, sure, but there shouldn't be the expectation that it will 'put your attacker down'... If you're dealing with someone hyped up enough to be attacking you, they will likely shrug it off like it was nothing, at least until they've calmed down. Make sure that your strategy in your head doesn't end up being something like "And open, and kick right between the legs and step back while he crumples.. he's not crumpling, he's still attacking, what the..!?" with you standing helpless in confusion while your attacker retakes the upper hand.

[tallgeese]

That's true of any attack. Never expect the bad guy to fall, or quit, keep fighting until the threat has been eliminated.

That being said, it's not a bad tactic. I've seen it work well, I've seen it shrugged off. From the flip side, you can't go into a confrontation thinking that it will stop you either. If you expect an attack to cripple you, it will. Mentally, you have to prepare to move thru anything and continue.

To kez's point, you do have to train to whatever competitive rules you're operating under. I advocate stopping any other facets of your training, outside of the comp's specific guidelines about 2 months out if youre serious about the competition. At least you should radically curtail them.

However, doing them in the dojo only makes sense if your doing any sort of sd focus in your art. That means occasionally sparring with them as well.

Personally, and maybe you said this in jest kez and if so I apologize ahead of time, I'd either work on the mental aspet of employing a tool until I could be certain reasonably that I'd use it, or I'd stop training it. To practice a tool that you know you won't use in conflict is both a time killer for the other aspects of your training and a false security blanket as well. Either accept the physiological damage that a tool can do, or move on to find another. Nothing good can come of dabbling in something that you are unwilling to employ when it counts.

I have the same gripe from the other side as well. The "if I were attacked I'd use...." Insert whatever here. And then that person never bothers to train in it's use. From ma-ers you hear it alot in the aspect of eye gouges.

"I'd gouge the eyes..." then you never see them address it in training. This leaves them both physically and mentally unpreapred for the challenge of using it. I also hear it from gun laypeople. "I'll shoot them if they break in and...." Then you never see them at the range. Let alone doing weapon handling work.

Anyway, just my thoughs. Sorry it that's n ot how you meant it, kez. I think it probibly still bears saying however.

[the beast]

I for one am against it in sparring but, for self defense I have no problem going there, not only with kicks but other strikes also.

[JoiH]

Grion kicks can be useful in both sparring and street self defense. In a purely self defense mode a good technique is groin kick done at the same time as a front punch to the face, followed by a horizontal elbow strike to the temple or side of neck, then a nice reverse punch to the solar plexus (simply because I love the reverse punch- simple, powerful and quick to sneak in). The forward momentum from the kick/punch combo puts you in good distance for the elbow strike. The torque from the rotation of the hips on the elbow strike sets up the reverse punce beautifully.

[granitemiller]

Not for sparring - but SD okay

[white owl]

Yeah, it seems like it's mostly just women who think that kicking to the groin is a real fight winner..

I tell my students that in self defence, all a groin attack does is make them easier to catch after the fact. I've been hit in the groin pretty solidly before; in an adrenalized state, it only registers as slight discomfort, easily ignored in favor of doing elaborate kicking techniques and the like. It doesn't have any effect until they calm down and relax.

That said, a technique intended purely to cause pain seems a bit annoying to have to deal with being applied regularly by the ladies in the gym. On the bright side, they aren't exactly invulnerable to such treatment either, if you notice some female being a bit eager with that particular target.

O K, now speaking as a woman. I would never intentionally hit to the groin but I am not afraid to get dirty if need be, either. I have personally been kick in that area a few times an it hurts bad and I would not render that pain to some one else purposely.

I do not know about the other lady's but as a young girl my parents preached to me if ever I need to protect my self in a situation like some one trying to abduct me to aim for the groin and take off screaming as loud as I can until I got some where safe. So it was ingrain in to me if ever I felt threaten to aim for that area because it would bring a big person down.

As for a practicing in a self defense situation with out contact, why not?

Yes accidents do happen so wear a cup.

[DWx]

Well for us kicking below the belt in general sparring isn't allowed because we tend to follow competition rules. However in free "anything-goes" sparring, groin kicks are to be expected and we train them on pads along with other techniques you wouldn't see in normal sparring. In normal sparring though its totally a faux-pas to aim for the groin and if you do its reasonable to expect some sort of retaliation.

For SD groin attacks are totally ok in my book. For use on both women and men its a viable target but like others have said, its not necessarily a fight stopping technique. You have to be prepared to follow up with something and keep going until the threat is eliminated. As white owl said, I think it can be something young girls are brought up to know to do when confronted. I think sometimes it can be seen as a must in a SD senario, I know a lot of my friends think its something you have to and should do in order to defend yourself. You ask them what they'd do when confronted and hardly anyone will say a punch or whack around the head, its always "kick them in the balls". I think its something society kinda drills into you. My own parents told me and my sister that's where I should aim when confronted by an attacker and in most films and on tv you'll see stuff where a groin shot ends a fight and lets the poor woman escape. Personally I'd much rather kick the knee out if I was going to do any kicking at all.