Giving Black Belts A Bad Name!

[Rateh]

I never trained at a school that really used group admonishments until recently. All my previous schools had pointed out the problems to the individuals during (or maybe after) class.

Recently, I was training in a class and the instructor, every class, would tell everyone that they needed to deepen their stances. I finally addressed him after class, asking why he had to keep reminding everyone, why didn't they just get it? He said that most people, during group admonishments, assume that the instructor isn't talking to them....whereas others assume that he is always talking to them.

It may be the case that these students assume that THEY aren't the problem.

[joesteph]

Recently, I was training in a class and the instructor, every class, would tell everyone that they needed to deepen their stances. I finally addressed him after class, asking why he had to keep reminding everyone, why didn't they just get it? (emphasis added)

Here is where I believe the instructor is making an error, Rateh. A group admonishment is not done with such frequency at all; it's done once, and then, if it continues, the wayward ones may be pulled aside individually, reminded of what was said, and asked to account for themselves. It can be that the instructor is addressing a group of twelve, really be speaking to four, and that only two need be pulled aside for one-on-one discussion later on.

[still kicking]

Shotokan-kez wrote:

It just really gets me angry and annoyed when there are students, weather they a BB or Kyu trying really hard...then you get BB's like that...grrr lets hope tonight is better eh!

I hope your Wednesday class went better! I have a similar situation in my school. It's only one student, but she totally bugs me because she does not push herself at all. She is quite overweight, though I understand she lost a lot and then gained it back, but I have see pictures of her when she was a more normal weight, and maybe she was better than. All I know is what I see now, which, I have to say, is basically a very lazy and unmotivated person who seems to mostly enjoy karate for the social contacts. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, but if that is the case you should not be wearing a brown belt and strutting around with senseis and thinking you are one of them, because your KARATE STINKS. It's a shame because she is a nice person, I guess, but that kind of energy just brings me down. When I am in class I am there to work hard, and when I see lazy (bleeps) just hanging out, it takes energy to deal with my annoyance. But I do manage to ignore her and focus on my training and all of the other people who are working hard.

[bushido_man96]

And I think that is what it is about; being true to yourself, knowing that you are doing all that you can to better yourself. After all, the MAs are an individual activity.

[pegasi]

In cases like the one experienced by the initial poster, with the BB's acting out, I think it's well within the sensei's rights to admonish those students with a warning to shape up, and basically put them on "probation," and if they continue to act out, to take away their belts until they earn them back by showing the respect and responsibilty that having such rank requires.

Busting them back to white temporarily (including requiring they go to white belt classes again until their behavior improves) in front of everyone for such unbecoming behavior would drive home a lesson unlike anything else. If you can't shape up after being warned, you deserve the consequences, especially if you're old enough to get the rank in the first place.

My instructor has a "pink" belt (a white belt that had an accident in the laundry) as a punishment belt for the truly unrecalcitrant students. It was only given out after several warnings had been given for conduct unbecoming of one's rank. No one wanted to have to wear that belt to class in front of everyone!

[Grego]

Pegasi,

can you take away a student's belt? If I'm a black belt, you can't take that away from me. The belt is my property, and the rank was granted. I don't know if can be truly ungranted.

The problem would take care of itself if sensei's knew their students better. ideally, you should know if your student is ready for the rank before you ever test them.

[JusticeZero]

You can forbid the student from wearing the belt within your school. The rank isn't so much stripped as suppressed in that case. "You may be a brown belt, but you're not wearing it in my class until your behavior is once again befitting of a brown belt! I'm not having someone wearing a brown belt behaving like a white in my class, disgracing everyone."

[Grego]

I see. That would suck.

[bushido_man96]

I agree with JusticeZero. I would only strip a rank if something very, very bad happened in a class, or wtih a student outside of class that reflected heavily on the school and myself.

When stripping it, I don't know that you could keep it, but what you do is make an example of them in the class. That is where the lesson lies, I feel.

[zerohour]

Just another perspective here - I agree that as martial artists we should aim to try hard in our training, and in the higher ranks we should definitely aim to be role models for other students. But I think in some cases a person might appear to be "slacking off" because they're having a bad day - perhaps work is getting them down, perhaps their family life isn't going so well, perhaps they're being bullied in school, it could be any number of things. So just in my opinion, perhaps it is a matter of motivating these students through understanding and compassion rather than punishment. Just my two cents.