Dont Drop Your Belt...

[RW]

Tallgeese and Grego,

he had no intention of dislocating my shoulder. he wanted to lay me out thats all. He quotes, "In all my years of training, I have only dropped my belt once...when I did that my instructor broke my arm, If I instill the same discipline in you, than I have successfully passed on atleast 50% of my masters teaching to you".

With that we went right on to class.

He also says that pushups are not a punishment its a conditioning exercise...you can do all the push ups you want but why call it a punishment when it betters your body.

If he did hit a minor their could be a possibility for him to get in trouble

Bushido Man,

This is where the thread about controlling your anger falls in. If I were to retaliate against him, he could have easily laid me out a dozen more times if need be. His primary style is Pressure points and Meridian Points...I would have standed no chance.

And plus my black belt is 50% silk and 50% satin right out of japan...that was an expensive belt...I would never throw it any one in risk of not getting it back again...haha

Truestar,

I admit I was a bit upset with a dislocated shoulder but...he 'kindly' relocated it for me..since I still dont know how to do it to myself...last night he also told me that it should be thought of as a lesson to learn how to relocate it myself...and to be less clumsily..."What good is a warrior who cannot even keep a hold of an obi".

Harlan,

To consider ones self to always be on the same old footing all the time, is to not know what a life is.

He still kicked you without you expecting it, from a blind side. He WAITED for you not to see it coming. He knew he was going to kick you from the time he gave you that smile.

It doesn't matter if he could wipe the floor with you, he's just being a bully "because he is stronger".

How would he feel if you paid some pro boxer (mayweather? Pacquiao?) to beat him up? (not that'd they do it or anyone could pay it, this is just a hypothetical). Hey, they beat him up because they can right?

[bushido_man96]

Bushido Man,

This is where the thread about controlling your anger falls in. If I were to retaliate against him, he could have easily laid me out a dozen more times if need be. His primary style is Pressure points and Meridian Points...I would have standed no chance.

In my view, it is controlling my anger. I make the choice of whether to stand up for myself or not, the anger does not. The anger is the initial emotional response to being jumped, whether in the dojo/dojang or on the street. I wouldn’t care what style he studies, or that he might be able to whip me; like Kenny Rogers sang, “sometimes you have to fight when you’re a man.”

I know the difference between a man who holds the rank Hoshi, and a man who doesn't.

Such as a man who has the rank of Hanshi, and not of Renshi. I put my point of view in the higher ranks, of Hoshi and Hanshi. Those are my terms of the difference between a teacher of lessons and a master.

I don’t care what rank or title someone holds, no one has the right to take a shot at another like that, regardless of what “lessons” he may be trying to teach. What he did is little short of an outright physical attack, and in many states, such an act can get one arrested for disorderly conduct at the least, and possibly battery.

[NewLevel]

I'm being taught traditionally right now by a traditional sensei in Shorin Ryu.

In martial arts, there's some things you keep and now these days some things need to be updated, (ex: self-defense, techniques, etc.)

But your sensei dislocating your shoulder is not only disrespecting YOU...but himself as well! Any Master would tell you that you do not do that to a student who is under you learning the art.

My sensei who trained under a 2nd generation Master (80 yrs old) in Tang Soo Do and Shorin Ryu told me his master would scorn him but never hurt him in that manner.

I'm sorry for disrespecting your sensei but that entirely is wrong and could possibly keep you from becoming a good martial artist. You better think this over and not just be passive.

[Shotokan-kez]

Oh my! My sensei is very strict and you really wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of him, all he needs to do is shout and thats enough to instil fear in you, but he would NEVER treat one of his students like that. I'm sorry but i think he was out of order.

I have dropped my belt lots of times, just because it's brand new, it's a big thick silk black belt and it often comes un-done and falls to the floor. I have never heard that dropping your belt is disrespectful, it happens and is more often than not an accident.

I agree with one of Brians earlier posts, if it had been my sensei, despite my respect for him, i would have thrown it at him and had choice words, and probably would find somewhere else to train. That must have been some kick to dislocate your shoulder! I'm in shock!

[doug_kissaki]

It seems this discussion has taken a turn from the original question. I want to discuss your instructor's treatment of you in a separate post.

As for respect for my belt... I have studied under several senseis. I have respected every one of them greatly because they earned that respect. I respect the dojo because it is my place of learning and I respect it like I respect my own home. I respect other students (of any level) because of their hard work and determination.

A belt, however, is merely a piece of cloth. It identifies my level to other students... period. It always makes me nuts when people think it's necessary to artificially create a level of respect for things that don't warrant it. My belt falling on the floor does not reflect at all on my opinion of my sensei, my dojo, or myself.

To quote Pat Morita... "belt mean no need rope to hold up pants"

[Traymond]

I enjoy all aspects of martial arts and anything orietnal thats related to the arts. This man is a man of etiquette more than his martial arts. He teaches Japanese flower Arranging and Tea Ceremony. His whole class from start to finish is as if you walked into a dojo in Japan or okinawa.

I do see the measurements as Excessive...but let me state one more aspect. This same teacher kicked a potential student out of the dojo and banned him and told him to never come back...why....because he wore his socks on the dojo floor and he also had a cigarette tucked neatly behind his ear. He is a no nonsense kind of guy and if its not done the way he wants it..you dont have to come back and it would not hurt his feelings. Everything he does is taken seriously by him. He told a story...not sur how true it was, but as he was growing up in Japan he was robbed one day. His wallet had the equivalent of 2000 us dollars in his Wallet...He almost killed the three guys who attempted to rob him. They all had atleast one broken limb. And after this was done, he made all three of them post a public apology through the media.

When we sign up to learn from him, he makes us sign a waiver...that no damage done to anyone in the dojo is relevant to his liability...so if we get hurt no matter what the cause is (Unless it ends up in death), we are responsible for it not him.

[50inches]

I enjoy all aspects of martial arts and anything orietnal thats related to the arts. This man is a man of etiquette more than his martial arts. He teaches Japanese flower Arranging and Tea Ceremony. His whole class from start to finish is as if you walked into a dojo in Japan or okinawa.

I do see the measurements as Excessive...but let me state one more aspect. This same teacher kicked a potential student out of the dojo and banned him and told him to never come back...why....because he wore his socks on the dojo floor and he also had a cigarette tucked neatly behind his ear. He is a no nonsense kind of guy and if its not done the way he wants it..you dont have to come back and it would not hurt his feelings. Everything he does is taken seriously by him. He told a story...not sur how true it was, but as he was growing up in Japan he was robbed one day. His wallet had the equivalent of 2000 us dollars in his Wallet...He almost killed the three guys who attempted to rob him. They all had atleast one broken limb. And after this was done, he made all three of them post a public apology through the media.

When we sign up to learn from him, he makes us sign a waiver...that no damage done to anyone in the dojo is relevant to his liability...so if we get hurt no matter what the cause is (Unless it ends up in death), we are responsible for it not him.

No one is to hurt his feelings, because he will get you back for it 10 times worse. Just odd I must say..

His story also seems HIGHLY unlikely. There are a few traditional schools where I live as well, and they tend to tell stories like this, and things like their hands are certified weapons etc. this is all hokus pokus, you can train as long as you want, but you will never be Superman. Those type of stories got by in 80s during the Karate Kid times, but not today.

But I will say that you have been respectful and responded to everyone here in a respectful manner, so that on the other hand has impressed me.

[Traymond]

I enjoy all aspects of martial arts and anything orietnal thats related to the arts. This man is a man of etiquette more than his martial arts. He teaches Japanese flower Arranging and Tea Ceremony. His whole class from start to finish is as if you walked into a dojo in Japan or okinawa.

I do see the measurements as Excessive...but let me state one more aspect. This same teacher kicked a potential student out of the dojo and banned him and told him to never come back...why....because he wore his socks on the dojo floor and he also had a cigarette tucked neatly behind his ear. He is a no nonsense kind of guy and if its not done the way he wants it..you dont have to come back and it would not hurt his feelings. Everything he does is taken seriously by him. He told a story...not sur how true it was, but as he was growing up in Japan he was robbed one day. His wallet had the equivalent of 2000 us dollars in his Wallet...He almost killed the three guys who attempted to rob him. They all had atleast one broken limb. And after this was done, he made all three of them post a public apology through the media.

When we sign up to learn from him, he makes us sign a waiver...that no damage done to anyone in the dojo is relevant to his liability...so if we get hurt no matter what the cause is (Unless it ends up in death), we are responsible for it not him.

No one is to hurt his feelings, because he will get you back for it 10 times worse. Just odd I must say..

His story also seems HIGHLY unlikely. There are a few traditional schools where I live as well, and they tend to tell stories like this, and things like their hands are certified weapons etc. this is all hokus pokus, you can train as long as you want, but you will never be Superman. Those type of stories got by in 80s during the Karate Kid times, but not today.

But I will say that you have been respectful and responded to everyone here in a respectful manner, so that on the other hand has impressed me.

You see when you respond in a disrespectful manner its my self that I am hurting...not any one else. His story does seem unlikey I will add. But to say that someones weapons are their hands, it not completely unlikely. I can break four japanese tiles with straight punch, to say that technique and precision is not a deadly weapon would be a false statement, the person on the receiving end of that blow would argue as well.

And I dont think that aspect he is showing us is that we must not hurt his feelings, because that would seem some what childish and he is not a childish person. He is just a tad big arrogant, but show me a martial artist with good skill and technique that really isn't during a class or a competition.

[Grego]

Traymond,

Most dojos make student's sign waivers. This is just so they can't be sued.

However, from a legal standpoint, if he kicked you hard enough to cause a shoulder dislocation....well, thats assault. That is a criminal act, and somebody could sue the crap out of him. I know you wouldn't, but somebody else definately could.

[sensei8]

For the love of...IT'S JUST A BELT! Your sensei should be ashamed of himself. My Soke was and my Dai-Soke is extremely old school, right from Okinawa. They're strict...but to this extreme...it's uncalled for.

The American flag means everything to me...but...it's just a flag! The bible means everything to me...but...it's just a book. It's not what's on the surface that's important to me, it's the content/context of what these are IN ME!

What's your rank have to do with you being abused by your sensei? It's a disgrace!

IT'S JUST A BELT! Important as it might be...it's not what the Martial Arts is about!

OMG!