The way the ranking systems tend to work....

[DWx]

... If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor. I hate schools that send you to test with a board of directors, that is stupid. The teacher knows his student the best and he or she should have sole responsibility in testing them...

Sometimes an external exam board can see things that the instructor overlooks. Often students tend to mimic their instructor too so any bad habits they may have will get passed on and the board can point these out. External exam boards also allow for another perspective on things and also ensures consistency if you are part of a group or org. Plus there's that added thing on making it seem more like a test rather than being complacent because you're instructor has seen you do a technique 100 times before so its not a big deal if you screw up.

[Traymond]

... If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor. I hate schools that send you to test with a board of directors, that is stupid. The teacher knows his student the best and he or she should have sole responsibility in testing them...

Sometimes an external exam board can see things that the instructor overlooks. Often students tend to mimic their instructor too so any bad habits they may have will get passed on and the board can point these out. External exam boards also allow for another perspective on things and also ensures consistency if you are part of a group or org. Plus there's that added thing on making it seem more like a test rather than being complacent because you're instructor has seen you do a technique 100 times before so its not a big deal if you screw up.

In my personal experience (I was tested 8 times by a board of directors). If they are not in the same state, you have to pay transportation to either go and see them or they come to you. You have to pay for the place that you stay in, then you have to pay the testing fee and some of the directors require their fee as well. It is pointless, to be tested by a group of people you want nothing to do with. You learn the martial art from your teacher, all martial arts are localized. You learn the way he teaches you, they never taught you before, why should someone be subjected to that?

[DWx]

... If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor. I hate schools that send you to test with a board of directors, that is stupid. The teacher knows his student the best and he or she should have sole responsibility in testing them...

Sometimes an external exam board can see things that the instructor overlooks. Often students tend to mimic their instructor too so any bad habits they may have will get passed on and the board can point these out. External exam boards also allow for another perspective on things and also ensures consistency if you are part of a group or org. Plus there's that added thing on making it seem more like a test rather than being complacent because you're instructor has seen you do a technique 100 times before so its not a big deal if you screw up.

In my personal experience (I was tested 8 times by a board of directors). If they are not in the same state, you have to pay transportation to either go and see them or they come to you. You have to pay for the place that you stay in, then you have to pay the testing fee and some of the directors require their fee as well. It is pointless, to be tested by a group of people you want nothing to do with. You learn the martial art from your teacher, all martial arts are localized. You learn the way he teaches you, they never taught you before, why should someone be subjected to that?

I also have to pay for similar costs (probably a bit less since the UK is smaller than most states). If you want nothing to do with them, then fair enough. Personally I would prefer to be tested by someone else for the same reasons above. In most cases anyway it would be my instructor's seniors, masters who are highly valued within our org for their knowledge so I'd see it as an honour for them to award me rank if they think I'm good enough. And if you think about it from an instructor's point of view it could be a good thing to get others to test your students because then you know that you are training them to a good quality and others are recognising that quality. The other thing for us is that the org I'm in is global and standardized everywhere so you have different people test you students in order to make sure everyone is working to the same quality and a green belt in one country means the same as a green belt halfway across the world.

[Traymond]

... If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor. I hate schools that send you to test with a board of directors, that is stupid. The teacher knows his student the best and he or she should have sole responsibility in testing them...

Sometimes an external exam board can see things that the instructor overlooks. Often students tend to mimic their instructor too so any bad habits they may have will get passed on and the board can point these out. External exam boards also allow for another perspective on things and also ensures consistency if you are part of a group or org. Plus there's that added thing on making it seem more like a test rather than being complacent because you're instructor has seen you do a technique 100 times before so its not a big deal if you screw up.

In my personal experience (I was tested 8 times by a board of directors). If they are not in the same state, you have to pay transportation to either go and see them or they come to you. You have to pay for the place that you stay in, then you have to pay the testing fee and some of the directors require their fee as well. It is pointless, to be tested by a group of people you want nothing to do with. You learn the martial art from your teacher, all martial arts are localized. You learn the way he teaches you, they never taught you before, why should someone be subjected to that?

I also have to pay for similar costs (probably a bit less since the UK is smaller than most states). If you want nothing to do with them, then fair enough. Personally I would prefer to be tested by someone else for the same reasons above. In most cases anyway it would be my instructor's seniors, masters who are highly valued within our org for their knowledge so I'd see it as an honor for them to award me rank if they think I'm good enough. And if you think about it from an instructor's point of view it could be a good thing to get others to test your students because then you know that you are training them to a good quality and others are recognising that quality. The other thing for us is that the org I'm in is global and standardized everywhere so you have different people test you students in order to make sure everyone is working to the same quality and a green belt in one country means the same as a green belt halfway across the world.

Ah I see that I forgot to explain my circumstance better.

My school is part of an organization within an organization, the part that I am talking about that I want no more affiliation removed the grandmaster from the scene and 'banned' his portrait from being in the schools and we are not allowed to bow to him when we do come across from him. To test I have to drive close to about 700 miles, then the only hotel around their is the Ramada. They hold a yearly national weekend/tournament. They refuse to let us hold it because it is to far for them to come, but yet they do not care about how far we have to go. Most organizations that I have seen are about the sane...the key word is "that I have seen".

The other organization I am talking about is my school itself.

We have a

Yondan in Shinchuurou Te

Yondan in Kajukenbo

sandan in Aikido

Sandan in Goju Ryu

and

gokudan in Uechi Ryu

We test each other based on the mixology of all the martial artists.

[Shotokan-kez]

I do agree to a certain extent what you are saying Brian, but i agree with an earlier post that white belt to orange belt (our system) has very little to do compared to the higher grades such as purple to brown. Our purple to brown is still only 3 months but since we have 3 browns it is 6 months, but still at sensei's discretion.

Are we saying that a karateka going from 1st kyu to Shodan should be able to grade within 3 months just like a 9th kyu to 8th kyu?

[tallgeese]

As to the board kind of a thing. I think it can be a good idea. I don't think it's needed for kyu ranks. A group from within the local school can do that.

I think for bb and above however, it's important to get the input of bb's outside the local school. I think that admission to that circle should be voted on by others who've already moved into that group. They should get a say on how well a given individual will uphold what' s been established as the "norm" of porficiency for their group.

[bushido_man96]

I think the reason for this is the large number of "new" belts. If we were on a White, Green, Brown, Black system - then the curve wouldn't be nearly as bad. Because of the difficulty they made more belts to help people feel better about struggling to learn it.

That is how I see it anyway...

This is a good point. I hadn't considered it.

[bushido_man96]

I do agree to a certain extent what you are saying Brian, but i agree with an earlier post that white belt to orange belt (our system) has very little to do compared to the higher grades such as purple to brown. Our purple to brown is still only 3 months but since we have 3 browns it is 6 months, but still at sensei's discretion.

Are we saying that a karateka going from 1st kyu to Shodan should be able to grade within 3 months just like a 9th kyu to 8th kyu?

I guess I look at it from the way my school does things, and perhaps I am just too much of a perfectionist. But, I would like to see some things become more solid with those first two testings or so, that way you spend more time developing those good habits, and not letting them go until they are higher rank, and then have to work to fix them.

Alright, but why should we set so much space between them anyways. If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor.

In this case, I think you have to consider the bulk of the material that has to be covered and demonstrated for testing purposes. If you are expected to demonstrate lower ranked material, along with self-defense, applications, etc, as well as those needed for the current rank. You might need that time.

[Traymond]

Alright, but why should we set so much space between them anyways. If they are ready, then they deserve to be tested, a the discretion of the instructor.

In this case, I think you have to consider the bulk of the material that has to be covered and demonstrated for testing purposes. If you are expected to demonstrate lower ranked material, along with self-defense, applications, etc, as well as those needed for the current rank. You might need that time.

Ok but what if they can prove and demonstrate that they are physically ready to test?

[DWx]

Maybe its an issue of whats being tested, not how long between testings. Generally I would have said that there is a lot less material to cover at the lower ranks than there is at the higher belts so even though the timing is the same (or slightly longer at the higher grades), its not so bad because of the amount of content you are covering. Maybe if you wanted your beginners to have a really good foundation bushido_man96, cut down on the amount of material they learn. Have them focus on only one or two stances and punching.