Love That Knee

[joesteph]

I'm sure most members do some amount of practice striking with the knee. Watch an MMA bout, and if the knee can be brought in, it will be. I wondered about how members practice to strike with and block against the knee.

When I study Soo Bahk Do, it's often been using the knee against a kick shield, putting my hands on top of the shield to pull on it (as though pulling down an opponent's upper body) and striking. When I took Self-Defense JuJitsu, we were only to place our hands on top of the shield or the holder's traps, and fire away from there. The differences, I found, were that I had more freedom to do a short jumping knee kick with the touch than with the pull, and it was also more "rapid-fire." Knee strikes are taught offensively in my art in one-step sparring and in forms.

I realize that knees are a taboo in most sparring situations, but I wondered if anyone practiced blocking knee strikes, not just delivering them, at their dojo/dojang.

I found just such an article, blocking that weapon, in the October 2002 issue of Black Belt magazine, "Knee Thrust" by S.D. Seong, in an interview with Cung Le. The article is on p. 64, and can be accessed in full at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=b9wDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT5&dq=Black+Belt&lr=&source=gbs_toc_pages&cad=0_1#PPT63,M1

[tallgeese]

Ahh, knees.

We work them from various locations to various locations. The outside of the quad is great from tie up or clinch. Groin from the same. Working destabilizing and head control to produce opportunities to the body, kidneys and the head are all excellet options.

It really comes into it's own, on a regualr basis for us mere mortals, from a tight postion with the bad guy so most of our practice takes place there. They shouldn't be overlooked when striking during grappling and pracitced on a ground and pound bag as well, again, close proximity weapons.

As for blocking, it depends on where the target is. For the body from a clinch, it's usually one arm horizontal to the strike, trying to catch the soft of the quad with an elbow or forarm bone. To the head, cover boxing or kb style with forarms and elbows. To the leg, it's tough if they are set up propery due to weight diestribution over your feet. Still, given the chance I'll try to check with a shin, but most of the time your stuck trying to jamb the range. For shots to the groin, it time allows, I'll raise a leg slightly to close off the opeining. Or turn a hip to take it more off center or in the thigh. Above all, train your mindset to keep going. That's almost more important than mechanical means. So occassioanlly when you get hit there sparring, keep working, despite you dimished capacity. Train the mind to accept soft tissue damage and keep working to keep you alive.

I think it's exteremly important to spar with them as well. Control is key, more important is proper gear. Something with a cage face portection or enclosed frontal face is needed. Even in ligher sparring they should be thrown, just to work on mechanics and application. The best knees are deleivered when you get good at positioning the opponants weight to capitalize on the power t hey can bring. To do this, live interaction is needed. Occassionally, you'll need to allow them to the groin as well. Get a good heavy duty wrap under cup and keep someone out to watch the contact.

To work targets we use shields, MT pats, even mitts. A good body guard is nice so you can push, pull and knee with less fear. This is a good way to start to work live with them and still not run them to full go in sparring right away. All of it's needed.

[JusticeZero]

Our hips are back, so a joelhada will either be a front thrust and thus roll one around it as defense, or it's from the side as a close range martelo and subject to the same responses for any lateral kick. The former seemed awfully hard to avoid telegraphing, given the amount of movement needed from the core.

[bushido_man96]

I like the knee strikes, but we tend to work them more in our DT classes and Hapkido than we do in TKD. Some of our forms have a knee strike, but we have never explored any applications with them.

I do think that our chest protectors would allow us to get some level of contact with a knee to the body, so its an idea.

Cung Le had some interesting scenarios in there, and I liked the way that he set up its usage.

[ps1]

Chung Le certainly has alot of experience. I'm sure that, with training and practice, his methods are all viable. Thanks for sharing the article.

[Kuma]

I use hiza geris (knee strikes) frequently in Kyokushin kumite as I tend to be a close-range striker. Knees to the legs, torso, and head are all allowed and encouraged. So yes, we learn how to use and defend against them.

[Shotokan-kez]

We are not allowed to use knee or elbow strikes while fighting but they do come up a lot in kata, where we have practiced the bunkai for it. I like to use knees for blocking though.

[KarateEd]

We have practiced using and blocking knee strikes very little until recently, though our training is quite rudimentary at the moment.

JoeSteph, my previous experience with knee strikes (we have one one-step and one three-step sparring technique involving a knee strike) was to deliver them in the same manner in which you describe, pulling the opponent down and into your knee. Now that some grappling has been introduced we are beginning to utilize and block knee strikes in short-range and clinch situations in a manner similar to MMA guys.

[joesteph]

I use hiza geris (knee strikes) frequently in Kyokushin kumite as I tend to be a close-range striker.

Do you wear protective gear when doing this, Kuma, or is this actually full-contact w/o protection?

I like to use knees for blocking though.

I saw a full-contact bout on YouTube not so long ago, and a roundhouse that must have been traveling pretty fast hit a raised knee, like Muay Thai fighters use. The attacker broke his leg; it appeared to be near the ankle. It looked like the knee came up just as the roundhouse struck it, so it was force against force, not the usual hitting a block that's already there, and the double force must have made the leg give way.

[bushido_man96]

I've seen that video, too. Very nasty...