Black Belts Discipline

[ShoriKid]

I'm with Tiger, it wasn't a good display of sportsmanship and self control. But, if your being constantly tagged and the ref is not saying anything about it during a light contact fight, people lose their cool.

I've packed beatings sparring before without trouble because I knew it was all in the spirit of good training. If I think someone is just trying to show off or intimidate/beat on me above the allowed contact level, I am not cool with it. I just try not to make the display of displeasure public.

[bushido_man96]

I hear you there, ShoriKid. I don't like that idea at all. That's when I throw out trying to score, and just trying to hit. Hitting is easier than "scoring," in my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

I was at a tournament this weekend and witnessed two black belts point sparring and it turned into a brawl that had to be broken up by several others.

I find the lack of discipline and/or lack of control to be apalling, what type of example are these guys setting for the youngsters watching them?

Honestly if I were in charge they would both be disqualified and banned from tournaments for at least 6 months, since most people there are point chasers I feel this type of punishment might teach them a lesson.

This is unfortunate. But, even with a black belt, people are still emotional beings, and at times, they can get the better of the best of us. I do know that my emotions still get the better of me at times. So, I wouldn't be too quick to pass a lot of judgement on them.

In looking at it on another light, I can see how something like this can escalate or be provoked and for that I have to put partial blame on the judges. For example, if a tournament is a non-contact or light contact one, and that isn't enforced by the judges, then it's easy to see how things can get out of hand if violations aren't called and then - one thing leads to another. That doesn't mean it's justified, but I can see how it happens.

I agree with Tiger here. If the rules aren't enforced properly, then you will see things like this happen. If it were me, and I got some guy trying to pound the tar out of me, and nothing is being done about it, then I am going to respond in kind. I'm into self-perserverance, ya know? So, some of the blame has to go to the officiating. Its their job to control the action.

It's only one of the reasons that I don't go anymore. The other reason is their is little tradition left in the styles being represented at the tournament.

Only goal is to win trophies. Not even viewed as a learning experience anymore.

This doesn't bother me so much. After all, compeititions are set up to compare skill to skill. I agree that competition is not for everyone, but when one enters a competition, then the goal is to try to win it. But, within the rules.

[brokenswordx]

Tori, you hit the target. After participating in my 1st and last tournament, I felt like it was all for the trophies and getting praise from people for being "#1". In the being that part of the reason why I started to train in martial arts, but as time went on I abandoned that desire. I got more out of teaching/helping others, seeing them advance and refine their skills. I was worried since I was a higher rank that I would be expected to participate in more tournaments, but someone told me that it was ultimately my choice whether to do so or not. It shocked my sensei when I declined the offer to register for another tournament, but he didn't push the subject.

[tori]

You know Brokenswordx, I have even tried to find a tournament in my area that was not based on a point rated system. Just a nice traditional school that may be hosting a local traditional tournament. I can't find one anywhere. I even happened on one website in my area that didn't even say what style they were, just that they host the biggest tournament in the area and that they were #1 rated. Lots of tournament pics, no style listed - anywhere. Its frustrating because I actually would love to attend a friendly, fun tournament. Haven't been to one in years.

[Prostar]

I was involved in a couple of those knock down drag out matches back in the 70s. Generally, I noticed that various elements allowed a tournament to go bad.

1. In the black belt meeting, it was up to the tournament director to lay down the law and set the tone for how things are going to be. If judges don't play by the rules, they get pulled.

2. The judges come in with various attitudes and skill levels. If they find the fighters getting out of hand, they should disqualify someone. The impact is not wasted on the next fighters.

3. The fighters have all kinds of agendas and some will push the rules if it helps them to win. But if someone is pounding on you and the judges are just standing there, you get the message and pound back.

[bushido_man96]

You know Brokenswordx, I have even tried to find a tournament in my area that was not based on a point rated system. Just a nice traditional school that may be hosting a local traditional tournament.

I don't quite understand what you are looking for in a tournament. If a tournament doesn't use a point system, then how do you judge the competitors? Tournaments are supposed to be displays of superiority of skill against others. If you don't go with points (in sparring), then you have to look into other avenues, which basically leaves the knock-out. That's about it.

Perhaps what you are looking for is a seminar, or interschool workout, or something like that. People would be more willing to share information and work with you in a setting like that, as opposed to a tournament setting.

Competitions definitely are not for everyone. Although I have done my share, they aren't for me. But I do respect those that can go and compete and do well; it is not an easy thing to do.

[tori]

You know Brokenswordx, I have even tried to find a tournament in my area that was not based on a point rated system. Just a nice traditional school that may be hosting a local traditional tournament.

I don't quite understand what you are looking for in a tournament. If a tournament doesn't use a point system, then how do you judge the competitors? Tournaments are supposed to be displays of superiority of skill against others. If you don't go with points (in sparring), then you have to look into other avenues, which basically leaves the knock-out. That's about it.

Perhaps what you are looking for is a seminar, or interschool workout, or something like that. People would be more willing to share information and work with you in a setting like that, as opposed to a tournament setting.

Competitions definitely are not for everyone. Although I have done my share, they aren't for me. But I do respect those that can go and compete and do well; it is not an easy thing to do.

The point rated system is a year long goal of achieving points and at the end of the season (year), the individuals who posted top points win something.

You see the same people at every tournament. They do the same thing over and over again at every tournament. If you watch any of their skills outside of what they use as competition, it is very poor. I know this because if at black belt, you tie in any event, you have to do something different. That was how i took 1st place in kata once. 3 of us tied. I did a different kata and did well. The group I was sitting with said I only won because they rarely practice their other kata, only the ones they use to perform for competition and apparantly there are not usually ties.

They have developed poor sportsmanship with others.

I am not trying to make this sound worse, but its all true. i would be standing and waiting to compete and hear them say degrading remarks out loud about each person competing.

I went to a nice tournament in Buffalo once. It wasnt a point rated tournament (no one was going to win anything because of accumulated points at end of season.) It was friendly. Everyone rooted for everyone. These events are rare.

[bushido_man96]

I understand what you mean by your points system, now. The ATA does it that way, but I never saw any problems with it.

Now, what MAists choose to train or not train when it concerns competition, I leave each to their own devises. The bad mouthing and what-not is not appreciated, for sure. But, don't judge all the same way. Instead, look at each person as an individual, choosing their own path of behavior and the like.

[Shotokan-kez]

I'm pretty serious about the way black belts should behave, this sounds awful and i'm glad i wasn't there. This is another reason i don't compete anymore...not only that but i noticed in my last comp the judges can be biased.

There is a kid i know who is almost a BB and he picks on my son and his language is obscene, he just is very unpleasent even threatening to "knock my sons teeth down his throat". I mean for a young kid to come out with that.

Karate is supposed to teach dicipline and respect and self defence...if this is what Karate does for some people maybe they shouldn't do it?