Taking orders from a higher but MUCH younger grade.

[ramymensa]

I think I'd just train and take the oders. I used to get all fluffed on such issues years ago, but now I just do what's needed from me and mind my own business. Sure I can feel it's a tad frustrating to be taught by a "kid", but I just try to not think about these issues. I think I am getting lazy nowadays, I don't like fighting that much for anything I don't consider proper as I used to when I was 20

[Shotokan-kez]

Thanks ramymensa..i know thats what i have to do.

[DWx]

When you said teach at the beginning Shotokan-kez, I thought you actually meant teaching a class. If it was just a warm up I don't think I would have any problem with it. We get kids from like yellow belt upwards to sometimes take the warmups. As part of their syllabus they're supposed to understand about why we need to warm up and how they should go about doing it. If she was being silly and giggly though that is another matter although maybe it was something to do with nerves and being in a class full of her peers who were also giggling.

[tallgeese]

A couple of thoughts here...

First off, I see your point joe. I could see that without as much problems. I still think that there is something to be said for having an adult oversee such things, but given your above example, I could see how it would be ok.

As far as being in charge of a warm up, then I'm all for it. Espically since it seems a less outgoing member of the class was asked to step up and run it. That seems like a good idea, and running warm ups are certainly more in line with the kind of responsibility that younger bb's should have to help build future instructions.

Whoever said ealier that we needed more information was certainly correct .

[joesteph]

She would never be allowed to take a class alone because of her age and the insurance on the dojo.

Understandable. Your presence there might be considered a legal necessity as well as an insurance one, should the chief instructor not be present.

Sorry, Shotokan, but I thought that the chief instructor was present but not on the floor for whatever reason, and she (the young BB) was teaching at length while one eye was kept on the class by the chief instructor. Absence of an adult responsible for minors is a serious concern, so your presence was a necessity.

Just that she was asked to do a warm up and i was the only adult there so the other kids were just giggling and being silly all the way through it...as was she...

This is unacceptable. Was the chief instructor present but occupied with other work at the time, or absent from the dojo/dojang? If she were only responsible for warm-ups, then the chief instructor might likely have been indisposed temporarily. A frank talk with him by you is a necessity, that he would know to speak with this young BB, to instill what responsibility means when one is in charge, and perhaps a good talking to is needed by the class as a whole. If the entire thing were done over with the chief instructor visibly present, it might set the stage for future times when he's not on the floor.

A last thought could be that the chief instructor wanted her to gain some experience in leading a class, and warm-ups are a good intro. That would be fine if the problem you mentioned didn't occur, of course, or had been addressed immediately.

[Tiger1962]

Ok, your a shodan and say in your 30's, there is a nidan aged 13..they are asked to teach. How would you feel about this? I personally have a problem with it, which i will explain later...what would you guys take to the situation?

On a few occasions there was a much younger student leading class because our instructor could not be there. This student is a higher rank than I.

I would not have a problem with this if the student acted responsibly and demonstrated maturity in class and was able to keep order. However, if the student that is teaching is not behaving properly, is goofing off, then he or she is wasting my time and money and I will speak up regardless if this student is a higher rank than I.

My instructor has told me (and a couple other adults) that if a senior ranking but younger student is substitute teaching and does not or can not keep order in the class, we are instructed to take over because in our instructor's words "adults rule". There was a few times when the little ones were laughing and joking around and not listening to the teenaged dan teaching class and so I stepped out of line to establish order and they quickly kept quiet. I believe this was because the teen teaching is still relatively inexperienced in running a class and the kids probably saw him as a peer rather than an authority figure. In any case, he was not offended that I intervened but instead glad I did. Again, my instructor is aware of this and approves in advance.

To reiterate, I would not have a problem with a younger but senior ranking student substituting a class PROVIDING he/she was mature about it and not wasting our time.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Tiger1962

[Tiger1962]

...........Just that she was asked to do a warm up and i was the only adult there so the other kids were just giggling and being silly all the way through it...as was she...Just wondered what you guys thought of it.

That would annoy me, however if the teacher was nearby or stepped away for a moment, there's really nothing you can do, unfortunately, except to deal with it. Now, if the instructor was not there for the entire class, then regardless of whatever rank she is, I would have intervened.

[Fu Man]

Since Fu Man is referring to "junior" BB status, I'm wondering why this topic is a "much younger grade," when all that was stated in the OP is the ages of the dan members involved.

Was the OP incomplete in some way?

If it's a "junior" BB, then the reference to "grade" enters into discussion; if there are no "junior" BBs, then it goes right back to square one: what the OP specifically says is the situation.

The first sentence of my post answers the question under the pretense that there is no separation of ranks between minors and adults.

I guess it depends on dojo protocol. The head instructor has the finally say on the matter, as previously mentioned, whether the decision is right or wrong.

I was merely explaining how the situation is handled at the dojo where I train, as others have done, which I believe adds to the discussion of the topic.

[Fu Man]

As far as being in charge of a warm up, then I'm all for it. Espically since it seems a less outgoing member of the class was asked to step up and run it. That seems like a good idea, and running warm ups are certainly more in line with the kind of responsibility that younger bb's should have to help build future instructions.

I agree.

Based on the original post, I was under the impression that the younger black belt was teaching the entire class.

[Kuma]

If you've ever done time in the military or know someone who has, you'd be in the same boat. I have almost 9 years in the U.S. military currently yet, being enlisted, I get to take orders from young lieutenants. I'm not mad about it: that's just how rank works.