Taking orders from a higher but MUCH younger grade.

[tallgeese]

sensei8, I see your point. But how can a 13 yo., no matter his technical capacity, have the maturity to teach an adult serious combatives. Remember, my major problem with this was in sd settings. At that age they shouldn't have the mindset needed to really train this stuff.

I can also see this with guys heavily competeing in the full contact arena (who probibly shouldn't be at large with everyone else in a club anyway). A 13 yo just hasn't been in a fight that brings the same level of contact as they will be.

Now, I said later that I can see it in limited aspect for helping them learn to teach. But I'd focus on having them teach youger students than themselves. It's just a more inutitive set up for all parties invovlved.

[granitemiller]

Someone who is 13 or under just does not have the maturity to teach adults, regardless of their rank. The youth, whether they are a BB, brown, nidan or whatever, will never truly gain the respect of a 30 year old adult IMHO.

[DWx]

Someone who is 13 or under just does not have the maturity to teach adults, regardless of their rank. The youth, whether they are a BB, brown, nidan or whatever, will never truly gain the respect of a 30 year old adult IMHO.

I wouldn't be so sure.. Maybe in a lot of cases but I wouldn't say that its not possible for a 30 yr old to respect someone who is less than half their age.

[Patrick]

Yeah, I wouldn't throw all 30 year olds (or all 13 year olds) under one umbrella. I mean, most 13 year olds don't even take the martial arts to begin with.

[granitemiller]

While all generalizations don't work (including this one) , I believe that any adult with an open mind will be able to receive partial instruction from an under 13 year old (provided the young person is serious and trying), but I don't think that an adult can give the same level of respect for a u-13 year old BB as they would for an adult BB. I believe that the u-13 year old would always be considered a "child" in the mind of the adult, and while the adult might "humor" the child, if the child steps over the line (as in the case with White Owl), then problems and bad feelings occur.

[ps1]

I have absolutely no problems with having a young person run the warm-ups and performing some drills. I would even have them demonstrate proper technique with some basic moves. It's a wonderful way for them to learn responsibility and learn to take accountability for their actions.

I would not, however, feel comfortable allowing any child to teach a class unsupervised. Most children don't have the maturity to handle various situations that arise. That could include anything from a rowdy student to an upset parent to an injury or emergency situation. In addition, I believe there are some restrictions in place with insurance companies.

[NightOwl]

I don't think that it is fair to either the adult or the kid for a young person to be in a position of authority over an adult.

For the adult, they have been through school, growing up, perhaps getting married and starting a family, going to work...and yet 2-3 times a week someone less than half their age is their 'boss' because of a black piece of fabric, and I think that can cause some hard feelings. Especially if the adults are looking for hard training other than going over basic drills, someone that young just physically (even if they are very mature for their age) can't provide that level of training.

On the other hand as a kid, you are given this authority with no real power behind it. Anyone who has been a hall monitor can tell you what that is like. On paper you are in charge but in reality people can (and will) disregard what you say if they don't like it, simply because you can't really do anything about it. Thus you are stuck trying to lead, but if something goes awry you don't have much of a choice other than going for help.

Either way I think that situation is a recipe for trouble, but I don't think that younger kids have no place in teaching at all. Helping lead warm ups, drills, etc helps get teaching experience while being in situations that don't lend themselves to conflict. I think that such training doesn't make adults feel disrespected in any way, and gives confidence and valuable training to young people not quite ready to be in the young adult/adult category.

[bushido_man96]

I think you make good points, there, NightOwl. While I was in the ATA, they had a program for younger, intermediate to higher ranked students that would get them into assisting in classes, mainly kids classes. The instructor ran the class, but these kids would assist with demonstrating techniques, perhaps lead warm-ups, and help with drills, all the while gaining some ability to control and run a class. Now, these kids wouldn't do this with adult classes, though; I think it is better to let kids stick to kids, and adults stick to adults.

I know a lot of people don't have good things to say about the ATA, but some things that they do, when followed and used properly, are great tools.

[Tiger1962]

I don't think that it is fair to either the adult or the kid for a young person to be in a position of authority over an adult.

For the adult, they have been through school, growing up, perhaps getting married and starting a family, going to work...and yet 2-3 times a week someone less than half their age is their 'boss' because of a black piece of fabric, and I think that can cause some hard feelings. Especially if the adults are looking for hard training other than going over basic drills, someone that young just physically (even if they are very mature for their age) can't provide that level of training.

On the other hand as a kid, you are given this authority with no real power behind it. Anyone who has been a hall monitor can tell you what that is like. On paper you are in charge but in reality people can (and will) disregard what you say if they don't like it, simply because you can't really do anything about it. Thus you are stuck trying to lead, but if something goes awry you don't have much of a choice other than going for help.

Either way I think that situation is a recipe for trouble, but I don't think that younger kids have no place in teaching at all. Helping lead warm ups, drills, etc helps get teaching experience while being in situations that don't lend themselves to conflict. I think that such training doesn't make adults feel disrespected in any way, and gives confidence and valuable training to young people not quite ready to be in the young adult/adult category.

VERY, VERY well said NightOwl !

[granitemiller]

I agree that allowing the younger ones to run "warm ups" or demonstrating techniques is a good way for them to learn leadership and another skills.