Taking orders from a higher but MUCH younger grade.

[Shotokan-kez]

Ok, your a shodan and say in your 30's, there is a nidan aged 13..they are asked to teach. How would you feel about this? I personally have a problem with it, which i will explain later...what would you guys take to the situation?

[DWx]

I think it would depend on the individual person. I know some pretty mature young blackbelts that I would be happy to receive instruction off but then again have met some that I really wouldn't. I would hope though that even if the person teaching is a 13 year old they still know their stuff and are reasonably qualified to give instruction. Personally I wouldn't mind it for the odd one off lesson but if that was my main source of instruction I would be a little put off as there is only so much a 13 year old has experienced.

[ShoriKid]

Depends. Like DWx said, on the young black belt. But, for me, what they are teaching matters just as much. I would have a hard time taking instruction on self defense from a 13 y/o who had managed to get a pair of stripes on a black belt.

[sensei8]

What would I do if I'm a 30 something Shodan and the 13 years old Nidan is asked to teach? I'd follow proper Dojo etiquette because the Nidan outranks me. Besides, the Chief Instructor/Sensei knows what he/she's doing, therefore, Sensei instructed/asked the Nidan to teach. For me, this is a no brainer according to the By-Laws of my Hombu. I'm sure that this Nidan will follow the lesson plan/syllabus per the Sensei.

Besides, ego has no place in the Martial Arts whatsoever. It wouldn't matter to me his age at all. All I know is that Nidan outranks Shodan. This Nidan didn't just manage to get a couple of stripes, he earned them and for me to act other wise, is a sign of disrespect to the Chief Instructor/Sensei.

In my honest opinion!

[joesteph]

Ok, your a shodan and say in your 30's, there is a nidan aged 13..they are asked to teach.

What would I do if I'm a 30 something Shodan and the 13 years old Nidan is asked to teach? I'd follow proper Dojo etiquette because the Nidan outranks me. Besides, the Chief Instructor/Sensei knows what he/she's doing, therefore, Sensei instructed/asked the Nidan to teach. For me, this is a no brainer . . .

No, I can't say I'm a dan member, but I'm fifty-six going on fifty-seven, and I've had no problem with the dan member who's fourteen. He's a fine young man, certainly knowledgeable, and earned his position as the new Jo Kyo Nim (assistant instructor) in our dojang, as our previous assistant instructor is now certified to open his own school, which he's working on.

There have been a few occasions when he's been asked to teach for a period of time while our chief instructor is conferring with a parent, etc., and there are numerous occasions when he's been the one to ask to supervise while the chief instructor is working on something special with another student (whether an advanced hyung or troubleshooting for a lower belt stuck on the basics).

I call him "Sir" and "Mr. ___" on the floor, and he calls me "Joe," just as any other student. Off the floor, I call him Michael, but so do other, young students, who call him "Sir" when on the floor. It's proper protocol.

In the past, one of the advancements the French army made (notably under Louis XIV, who was fond of war) was a strict ranking system for the army. No matter what lineage (I'm the son of a duke, and you're the son of a count) or age (I'm old enough to be your father), whatever the rank says, that's it. How many officers are twenty-two years old in the US Army and outrank Master Sergeants who took years to get there? Does the army want to hear complaints about it?

Any military historians out there? Wasn't Colonel Martinet of France the one who insisted on a strict code of following orders based on rank that other countries adopted? Isn't it the same with martial arts? Or else what does the ranking system mean?

Edited December 6, 2008 by joesteph

[Fu Man]

I guess it depends on dojo protocol. The head instructor has the finally say on the matter, as previously mentioned, whether the decision is right or wrong.

Overall, I have mixed thoughts about the topic, which is mostly attributed to the separation between junior and adult ranks at the dojos/dojangs where I have studied.

For instance, at the present dojo where I train, a black belt under 18 years of age, a junior black belt, is not the same rank as a black belt over 18 years of age, a "true" black belt. Therefore, an adult black belt is technically always a higher rank than a minor with a black belt. All of the classes are taught by adults, by the way.

[joesteph]

At the dojo where I train, a black belt under 18 years of age, a "junior" BB, is not the same rank as a black belt over 18 years of age, a "true" BB. Therefore, an adult BB is technically always a higher rank than a minor BB. All of the classes are taught by adults, by the way.

Since Fu Man is referring to "junior" BB status, I'm wondering why this topic is a "much younger grade," when all that was stated in the OP is the ages of the dan members involved.

Was the OP incomplete in some way?

If it's a "junior" BB, then the reference to "grade" enters into discussion; if there are no "junior" BBs, then it goes right back to square one: what the OP specifically says is the situation.

Since Shotokan-kez said:

I personally have a problem with it, which i will explain later...

Maybe now would be a good time to explain, so we know the full story.

[tallgeese]

I'd have a tough time taking sd instruction from him. A 13 yo kid just dosn't have the life experiance and probilby not the adult triaining required to adaquately present that kind of material.

It's that kind of situation that keeps us from awarding bb rank in the combatives of our art until at least 16. Even with that, I think the youngest to ever reach bb status was 19 or so.

[joesteph]

I'd have a tough time taking sd instruction from him. A 13 yo kid just dosn't have the life experiance and probilby not the adult triaining required to adaquately present that kind of material.

Tallgeese, suppose you were a lower belt, as I am, and he is instructing you on kata/hyungs (which are taught in segments, not the whole form at once). Or suppose he's to introduce you to one-step sparring that you haven't done before, so that he's actually teaching you what to do. Perhaps you and another student of the same lower belt rank are both learning what to do, so that he's introducing/instructing and so supervising. It could even be anti-wrist grab techniques.

I realize your reference was to SD, but the chief instructor might not have planned that for that class's lessons, particularly for lower belts. Would any of the examples I gave be acceptable to you in terms of teaching by a younger teenager (13, 14, 15) who holds a dan ranking?

[Shotokan-kez]

Ok i'm not saying this youngster doesn't deserve her grade at all! She is very good at what she does and i get along great with her. She would never be allowed to take a class alone because of her age and the insurance on the dojo.

Someone mentioned Ego before...i do totally respect all higher grades..but yes i guess my ego is getting in the way a bit. Just that she was asked to do a warm up and i was the only adult there so the other kids were just giggling and being silly all the way through it...as was she...Hats off to her though she is only young and a little shy so fair enough. Just wondered what you guys thought of it.