Front kick

[bushido_man96]

You need to remember that Van Damme was a dancer and his moves in his movies are over pronounced for the show of it.

I do recall that Van Damme danced, and yes, it was movie stuff. But still, it shows that it can be a functional way to kick. I think Roy Kurban showed some of the same stuff in his book.

[joesteph]

If you ever watch some of Van Damme's movies, you will see that he tends to do a hybrid type of chamber for his side kicks, round kicks, and hook kicks; they all seem to come from the same starting point. Not that it is right or wrong; just an observation.

When the posting on doing a side kick the "right" way, which was essentially about chambering, was active, one of the responses was by a member whose instructor had no problem with his chambering in such a manner that a sparring opponent couldn't tell by the chamber if he were about to shoot out a side, roundhouse, or hook kick.

[JusticeZero]

If that's how power generation in your art can work with, that's fine. For me, power generation between martelo (roundhouse) and ponteira or bencão are radically different, and I can't picture any way to chamber them to look similar. For that matter, ponteira and bencão will look different, as the bencão needs a tight chamber so that the thrust can drop and extend, where the ponteira stops the chamber when it is pointed at the target.

[joesteph]

For me, power generation between martelo (roundhouse) and ponteira or bencão are radically different, and I can't picture any way to chamber them to look similar.

In chambering for a roundhouse, say you're turning your body and raising your kicking leg so that your knee points towards the target/opponent; then your arcing kick swings out.

In chambering for a side kick, say you're raising your kicking leg into what is like a front kick chamber, only you've turned your body, so that the kick will snap out against the target/opponent. That side kick can also be referred to as a side snap kick.

Now think of your opponent watching you, and whenever you chamber for a side kick, you don't use the front kick-appearing chamber. You raise your leg just like a roundhouse, go past the pointing knee position, and from that tight chamber thrust out (not "snap" out) a side kick. Your opponent doesn't know when you raise your leg along the roundhouse path whether or not you're going to stop, point the knee, and swing out a roundhouse, or go past that roundhouse knee point and thrust out a side kick.

If you picture or try these out, then I guess you can see how it's done with a hook kick, too. (I don't do the hook kick myself--because I'm awkward!)

[bushido_man96]

Power generation can be pretty similar across the board. However, with the type of movement that you do in Capoeira, it probably plays a bigger role in how you chamber certain kicks. The only experience I have in Capoeira is my reading on the subject, so I would have to defer to your knowledge there.

However, I like the way Joe has it layed out there. That's a pretty good explanation.

[DWx]

For me, power generation between martelo (roundhouse) and ponteira or bencão are radically different, and I can't picture any way to chamber them to look similar.

In chambering for a roundhouse, say you're turning your body and raising your kicking leg so that your knee points towards the target/opponent; then your arcing kick swings out.

In chambering for a side kick, say you're raising your kicking leg into what is like a front kick chamber, only you've turned your body, so that the kick will snap out against the target/opponent. That side kick can also be referred to as a side snap kick.

Now think of your opponent watching you, and whenever you chamber for a side kick, you don't use the front kick-appearing chamber. You raise your leg just like a roundhouse, go past the pointing knee position, and from that tight chamber thrust out (not "snap" out) a side kick. Your opponent doesn't know when you raise your leg along the roundhouse path whether or not you're going to stop, point the knee, and swing out a roundhouse, or go past that roundhouse knee point and thrust out a side kick.

If you picture or try these out, then I guess you can see how it's done with a hook kick, too. (I don't do the hook kick myself--because I'm awkward!)

IMO I don't think the example you used would work too well. I've always been of the mind that you can't separate the kick from the chamber, as soon as the leg begins to move you have to follow through completely to make it an effective kick because otherwise you are only utilising part of the acceleration. I tried to do what you said above and start off with a roundhouse but then change it to side kick, I found that it actually took a lot of effort to stop a full power roundhouse once in motion and then change the direction to do a side kick. The force that I generated from the beginning of the roundhouse was wasted and the side kick lacked any power that is generated before reaching the "chamber point". I may have misunderstood what you meant though...

[bushido_man96]

Perhaps I should clarify a bit on the front kick/round kick/side kick chamber that we are discussing here.

I think that this method works the best when you are working off of a front leg kick. I have never messed with it doing back leg kicks, and not with spinning kicks either. Perhaps that could be where some of our mix-ups are coming from.

However, I do think that it can be a good strategy for front leg kicks.

[DWx]

Maybe its the way I do the kicks as even if it was front leg I still don't think it would work for me. The only kicks I would use a similar 9but not identical) chamber on are a hook kick/side kick, or axe kick/front kick but even then the chamber is a transitional position that I don't tend to distinguish from the rest of the kick.

[JusticeZero]

In chambering for a roundhouse, say you're turning your body and raising your kicking leg so that your knee points towards the target/opponent; then your arcing kick swings out.

In chambering for a side kick, say you're raising your kicking leg into what is like a front kick chamber, only you've turned your body, so that the kick will snap out against the target/opponent.

OK. I don't do side kick at all, so i'm hazy on that, and the roundhouse seems vaguely awkward eplained that way..

You'd lose a bit of power waiting until that late to swing the shin out, especially given that you are moving past the target all the time that you're doing it.

I would think that your side kick would be limited by whatever power you had available after checking your own rotate.

In both cases it seems like you're canceling out a lot of your force and alignment to put in a narrow stop in the motion, and then have to rely on the strength of the leg. We don't use leg strength if we can get away with it.

So yes, dramatically diferent and it's going to be very idiosyncratic to arts - but your explanation still sounds like more of a sparring-tag technique than a fighting one. A real fight is nothing like sparring in those tactical senses.

Mind you, if point sparring, not fighting, is your focus and goal to begin with, which is a perfectly valid goal though it is NOT actual combat application, then lots of things that limit power output start to be a good idea..

[DWx]

In chambering for a roundhouse, say you're turning your body and raising your kicking leg so that your knee points towards the target/opponent; then your arcing kick swings out.

In chambering for a side kick, say you're raising your kicking leg into what is like a front kick chamber, only you've turned your body, so that the kick will snap out against the target/opponent.

OK. I don't do side kick at all, so i'm hazy on that, and the roundhouse seems vaguely awkward eplained that way..

You'd lose a bit of power waiting until that late to swing the shin out, especially given that you are moving past the target all the time that you're doing it.

I would think that your side kick would be limited by whatever power you had available after checking your own rotate.

In both cases it seems like you're canceling out a lot of your force and alignment to put in a narrow stop in the motion, and then have to rely on the strength of the leg. We don't use leg strength if we can get away with it.

So yes, dramatically diferent and it's going to be very idiosyncratic to arts - but your explanation still sounds like more of a sparring-tag technique than a fighting one. A real fight is nothing like sparring in those tactical senses.

Mind you, if point sparring, not fighting, is your focus and goal to begin with, which is a perfectly valid goal though it is NOT actual combat application, then lots of things that limit power output start to be a good idea..

Well said. What I was trying to say earlier but said much better.