Escalating cost of martial art training

[catalysis]

First, thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

I'm thinking of starting to train at a school near me which seems to be a well respected art and school, however it is a little pricey. I took a couple classes and I like it though.

He showed me the cost of the "green belt program" and right away I knew what that meant so I asked how much is the "black belt program" that comes after that. Of course the cost was higher. Now, all students are allowed to attend any class and they address your level well. I understand that higher ranks require more training but I can't help but be bothered a little by this.

My question is, is this a common practice among schools? Forgive me for saying, I can't help but feel this is a little cult-like. You get a higher rank and then are faced with the choice of paying more or leaving. I would really like to train here but there is a little voice in my head that just needs reassurance that this is the right way to go. thanks.

[Kajukenbopr]

this is a problem I've seen when browsing schools in the states...

Down in Puerto Rico, martial art classes cost about $40 a month, but apparently in the states it is common to see $80-90 a month...

Just make sure the prices dont go soaring up as you go, personally I wouldnt pay more that $90 a month... UNLESS they were going to be training me personally, no group classes.

[Rateh]

It really depends on where you live Kajukenbopr. For instance in Las Vegas I know of only one school that charges less than $100/month. And that is in a really bad part of town that is way to scary to go to at night. It's not because everyone is trying to take all your money. It's just the cost of maintaining a school. Of course schools with more students make money, but at $100/month it takes 30 students to pay the bills. (on average)

catalysis, it's not a common practice per say but it isn't unusual. It could be a great school that didn't make the best decision on how to make money. There is nothing wrong with people making money teaching martial arts IMNSHO. The whole starving instructor deal doesn't fly with me. IMHO the school is trying to make money and they probably pay their instructors and/or an office person. They just didn't made a good decision on how to make the money. I think so long as you ask and are told ahead what different costs will be, then just make the decision on whether or not you afford it and whether you like the instruction. I would forgive the choice to start it lower and then raise it.

[bushido_man96]

It sounds to me like a school that is running on a John Graden type of program. He set up programs kind of like that.

When the cost is higher, is also spread out over a longer period of time? If so, that shouldn't be too out of line.

There are a lot of different payment options available to schools out there. This is just another. Check out the school, look at the quality of the students at all belt levels, and talk with the instructor and ask him questions about these programs. In the end, it may be worth it.

Welcome to the Forums!

[Shotokan-kez]

I feel so lucky when i see how much you guys pay for training. I don't know the equivilent between dollars and pounds but i pay £2 per lesson and thats it.

There are no programmes or anything like that. In England i wouldn't pay more than £4 a lesson because thats the average cost. Of course i have seen some much dearer, which would be out of my price range.

I can't really comment on this because i dont know what it is or had any experience of it. It seems though you have had some great advice so far, try a trial time and see how you feel, work out your usual budget for living for the month and see if you can spare the cash.

Good luck and welcome to KF. x

[Jay]

Thats about $4 shotokan kez I used to pay the same for years and then the club was taken over by someone else . I then payed about $54 dollars a month but that was because i trained only once a week if i had trained more it would be about $100. This year for kung fu I payed about that for the whole year so but it is a university club and we are all strapped for cash so i mean it has to be cheap.

[SBN Doug]

That's correct. 2 British pounds would be about $50/mo for 3 days/wk. So your average of 4 pounds would be a little over $100/mo.

But I think the quesion wasn't so much about how much it was, rather that it increased as their belt level increased.

We have the same situation in Kuk Sool Won. It doesn't increase much, but it does increase. However, we are now getting instruction directly from our Senior Master, rather than 1st-3rd degrees with an occational instruction from the Master. So, I feel like the increase in price is compensated by the level of instruction as well.

[a_ninja]

Well if money is all that school is thinking about then i definatley wouldnt go, because they probably wouldnt focus on their martial arts as much as they do techniques for making money

[BudoTiger]

like it or not a school HAS to make money to stay in business. i see people complaining all the time about a school making money, how much they charge, the amount they charge meaning the martial arts is watered down or they are a mcdojo....

it's silly. for a school to stay in buisness and continue to grow means it has to charge enough to not only keep the equipment in good repair, pay the bills, pay any instructors, BUT it STILL needs to make a profit.

now depending on what area its in and the location THAT will dictate how much the instructor may charge to keep the school in business. i have been helping my sensei in trying to find a location for a permanent school instead of doing the program through the city and let me tell you rent ain't cheap in this area.

for 1600 sq ft the ave cost is about $4500 a month. now even with 50 students he would have to charge a MINIMUM of $100 per student JUST to pay the rent. my old school the shopping center they were in the dojo was i believe about 4500 sq ft maybe smaller i cant remember. the tuition there was any where between $150 a month to $200 a month with the ave being i think $185. there was 180 students. now between paying myself and the chief instructor (both full time 40+ hours a week), 3 part time instructors that only got paid per student they taught, the rent, advertising, equipment, etc the school was just barely making the overhead some months. to the point that all but the chief instructor was going on a commission for teaching salary.

now just because a school charges a high amount doe not mean they are watering down the training. i have watched some other schools and my old school is alot harder as far as some of the training goes. not all but some. the material was by no means watered down. it was taught very different for kids to help them get it down but still not watered down.

the thing you need to think about is..

1. do YOU enjoy the school and think it is worth it...

2. can you afford it with no problem..

if you can answer yes to BOTH not one or the other then go for it.

[Kajukenbopr]

I dont have a problem with people making a profit, however, if you are thinking about making a profit, you are not overly thinking about the quality of your material, but of how many students you need to stay per month and how to keep expanding the business.

That is how McDojos develop- you have a founder that decides to make a profit, he starts the first school with good material, then opens a series of other schools, even if the material is good, it has become a product for selling.

So, if your students are not good because they are lazy, you could make them wait for their belts, or give them the material, acknowledge them as inheritors of the material(even if they havent mastered it), because they PAID for it.

However, people that train in parks, out of their homes or community centers don't really have an obligation to the student.

I'm not saying this is ALWAYS the case for schools that want to make a profit, and schools that don't make a profit. But if "profit" is the school means of survival, the material depends on commercial success.