postworkout recovery

[Daisho]

my typical week is a 3-day split of weight training, broken up by my 3 days of karate per week, and one full recovery day. For more info on the weight training portion see http://www.ast-ss.com/max-ot/max-ot_intro.asp. But the basis of Max O-T is maximum overload training (pyramid training for those familiar), which is great because my gym time is back down to a manageable 45 mins from 1 and 1/2 hours.

Problem is that i'm never 100% recovered from shoulders or bi's/tri's before Sunday's Kenjutsu, and my Thursday is a nightmare going through training following wednesday's thigh workout.

As it is my diet is pretty damn good, and i've added fish oils and L-glutamine before bed to help in the recovery process, but for some reason the past few weeks have been taking a toll. I've even increased my calories to 2300 per day to guarantee my body get a good base of proteins and fats, plus allowing enough carbs to boost my time at the dojo.

ANyone have issues with their training, or have a better set-up to maximize recovery/training schedule? Mine changes quite often, but here's the split i'm currently doing:

Monday:

back/shoulders/calves

Tuesday:

Jujutsu/Aikido

Wednesday:

chest/traps/thighs

Thursday:

Jujutsu/Judo

Friday:

abs/bicep/tricep

Saturday:

off

Sunday:

Kenjutsu/Jujutsu

[bushido_man96]

I do back/shoulders/biceps all on the same day; I would include traps in there too; pretty much the same area. You end up doing your sword workout on Sundays, and then turn around and work your shoulders on Monday. I don't think that gives them much recovery time. I would look to moving that portion of the workout to later on in the week, and see if that helps your shoulders by the time Kenjutsu rolls around.

[Givnal]

I spent many years hitting the weights and I found one thing many of us, (myself especially), forget that we need recoup time. Everyone is different but I was one of those people that if I didnt get a solid 8hrs sleep I had a harder time recovering. Make sure youre getting enough shut eye. Training, nutrition and sleep, top 3 things.

I used a similar training schedual however I broke my arms up into different days. Chest and triceps, Bi's and Back worked well for me. When working with presses your using alot of triceps and when doing back excercises, especially lat pull downs, pull ups or even bent over rows you are using some bi's. By including these muscle masses together you are exhausting sister muscles so to speak, and giving your arms a little less intense training by splitting it into 2 days instead of doing it all in one day. I was mostly into strength training and found I made some great gains by switching my routine monthly and skipping a day now and then when I felt I was overdoing it. Sometimes pushing too hard can actually hurt our progress. Anyway, just a couple random thoughts.

[Daisho]

great points from both of you guys. i'm switching up my train sched this week, and both comments are going to be weighed in with the new routine. i'll post it up here, once i finalize it.

seriously, i appreciate you guys taking the time to offer some advice =)

[bushido_man96]

Anytime! You are most welcome.

[Lazarush]

Hey there. I am lifting weights while doing karate. Been reading a lot of books and diet stuff, finally got on my own with this. It is very hard for me to say anything how to get recovered faster, but I'll try to give you some tips.

I have actually no idea, how aerobic your training is.

If you want to recover from hard training faster, I suggest to start doing some aerobic excercising too. But remember sleep and diet are important too.

Running is good (not so good for body building purpose), but I would highly recommend light running just at home and using 1kg weights. Rising your arms up, on sides, jumping around, just to make you sweat a bit. This excercise shouldn't tire you up at all, just gets your pulse higher, you should feel fresh after this training (at least I do). 15-35 minutes. If you feel tired after training, then we know that you lack of energy, meaning that you need to start eating or sleeping more.

What you don't want to do is, use all your energy on this and tire yourself even more. So just take it lightly (running, jumping around with weights or whatever you do).

I would suggest to do this on your recovery day. Also quick stretching, before you start.

EDIT: What do you mean, that your training is changing?

Mine changes quite often, but here's the split i'm currently doing:

This is not actually a good thing, because if you need to change it lets say that you did last friday chest muscles. It takes around 4-7 days to recover. Then you do the same on monday, because your schedule changed? This isn't the best thing to be honest

Correct me, If I am wrong.

[Daisho]

I get some solid cardio in during my week. Our dojo is VERY focused on fitness, and we use the first 20 minutes to do nothing but run, run/roll, fast paced tai sabaki, to get our bodies well warm, and our heart rates up. from there our training is mostly focused on randori, so we spend 10 minutes learning a technique, then the next hour in a constant multi attacker randori, with very little downtime.

as for the gym, i usually only do a 15 minute warmup run on a treadmill, to loosen up my muscles before lifting.

I don't know my exact stats as far as bf%, but i'm 5'11" 205lbs, and that 205 is ALOT of muscle, as i've been weight training outside of MA for 4 years now.

My problem isn't conditioning at all, it's more so finding a balance between my different training methods, and walking the fine line of over-training.

The more cardio i add the more calories i need. The more calories i need the more meals i have to eat. The more meals I have to eat, the harder it is to find the time to fully digest, and then go train.

[bushido_man96]

The more cardio i add the more calories i need. The more calories i need the more meals i have to eat. The more meals I have to eat, the harder it is to find the time to fully digest, and then go train.

Reading this section makes me ask what your goals are exactly for your training? I imagine, from what you describe, that you have that figured out. I am just wondering, for the sake of curiosity.

[Givnal]

Good to hear youre changing things up a bit. You sound like I used to weight train. I have to admit that when I started karate I had (still have) trouble getting loose in the shoulders and hips. Not enough streatching over the years, I wish I had taken the time to do that. It would have saved me some frustration now.

Thinking about diet, another good thing for recoup is to have some good carbs within 30 minutes after you finish your workout, could be a baked potatoe or slice of pizza. Helps to keep your system from crashing. Dont over do it though. Toss in a bunch of protein also for muscle growth, Im sure you know all that. We could talk about Creatine also but thats another story and Im not sure what your lifting goals are either. Very easy to dehydrate on that stuff.

[Daisho]

what your goals are exactly for your training? I imagine, from what you describe, that you have that figured out. I am just wondering, for the sake of curiosity.

my weightlifting goals directly correllate to my MA. No "cutting", although i watch my calories carefully as i typically feel my performance best at about 190-195 lbs. Last summer i did the whole 181lbs with a "six-pack", but now my goals in the gym are to strengthen my body for my MA practice, to protect against injury, and to make my techniques more overwhelming.

Thinking about diet, another good thing for recoup is to have some good carbs within 30 minutes after you finish your workout, could be a baked potatoe or slice of pizza. Helps to keep your system from crashing. Dont over do it though. Toss in a bunch of protein also for muscle growth, Im sure you know all that. We could talk about Creatine also but thats another story and Im not sure what your lifting goals are either. Very easy to dehydrate on that stuff.

yea, typically when i leave the gym i go into the GNC next-door(where i managed for 7 years), and pickup a Kashi Go Lean bar (unless I actually have time for a proper lunch). I stay pretty tight on my carbs, as I need to make sure to get enough protein to resist the catabolic effects of working out, yet i need to maintain a decent caloric level. In the OP i said i had increased my calroies pretty considerably to allow for more carbs post MA.

I've cycled creatine on and off for years. When i was at GNC i'd go for the Cell-Tech, which the loading period alone would set me back $60+. I even added an ATP booster with the creatine, and never noticed any difference in my strength/power.

I know alot of people swear by the stuff, but i used it through an entire bulking phase and didn't see any noticable difference from any other bulking phase.

Anyways, i'm trying to move away from supplements in general, and moretoward getting my nutrients from whole food sources. I stay with the GNC multi, and i buy ginseng (whole root) from the Chinese corner-store, who's owner actually taught me how to make the tea.

The L-Glut before bed is the only thing I have a hardtime letting go of.