Gaining Power

[ckdstudent]

A lack of breaking does not necessarily explain a lack of power. Lots of people don't do breaking, and many of them are incredibly powerful. There's more than one way to develop power, and breaking is not the only way to measure it, not the safest.

 

Incidentally the brick does generate a force, an equal and opposite one to the hand. Your hand is injured by the blow which is why good technique is so essential, it reduces the damage. Too much breaking causes your knuckles to break or 'spread' and calcify, so as you get older it'll be harder and harder to do anything with your hand other than make it into a fist.

 

 

[Martial_Artist]

Buffing up won't help you much in the power development field. Large, muscular people usually(I say usually and point it out ) don't generate much power than what their muscles instantly afford. Also, it is my experience that size of the person bears little on the amount of power that person generates. In fact, maybe it's my lack of experience, but I have yet to meet a buffed up guy who can hit hard, I mean really hard. Substituting mass will not get your hits any more powerful.

 

The problem ultimately lies in your technique. You may not have speghetti noodle legs when you kick, but you probably don't know how to hit. I can't say; I can't see you kick or punch. But if you say you kick firm then it is most likely lack of experience hitting things.

 

First, it would be good for you to get a heavy bag, 100lbs. canvas(water filled or stuffings is fine) This bag will not easily budge. Now start hitting it. What does the bag do? Gauge its response to your movments. Try hitting it as hard as you can. BE CAREFUL NOT TO DAMAGE YOUR JOINTS. Just hit it as hard as you can, this means as far as you can take it and not powering all the way through it as you could break or damage something. (A common injury among newbies on a heavy bag is an injured wrist from throwing a hard punch on a bag that didn't give.) The way to tell how much power you develop is by the way the bag reacts to your attacks. It is also a good way to tell WHERE your power is going. If you do a sidekick and the bag spins more than moves, then your accuracy(i.e. power-focus) is not tuned.

 

Second, begin scrutinizing your technique. When you kick do you throw the dead weight of your leg at your target and let it hit with the sheer force of your muscle? When you kick it shouldn't feel like you're lifting your leg and moving it to a target. It should just kick and not feel like your moving anything. You must snap through your attacks. A lot of power is to be found in the proper utilization of snap. You can place a lot of mass behind a simple, sharp movement aimed beyond the target in a quick motion.

 

There is more to any attack than just forcefully placing your hand or foot on the target. If you don't make your target 'jump' or 'explode'(note I did put it in quotes so don't take it as literally exploding) then you're not really hitting your target, but forcefully placing your hand or foot on it and there is not much power to be found in doing that.

 

Strength training is important but more so for the overall benefits and uses aside from striking that can be gained from it. Case-in-point: my younger brother, when we were younger, was around 5'1" and less than 100lbs. He was like that all through high school. With a single punch he has knocked out a guy 6'3" 250+lbs. With a 'light' kick he knocked another 6'+ 240+lbs. out cold. I use him because he is small and a perfect example. I'd use myself but I'm the exact opposite. And it might sound as if I don't know what a smaller person is capable of.

 

Work your technique. Test it on the heavy bag. I hate to say but not every instructor teaches how to kick with power. This was, and still is, a major issue within the martial arts. In the 70's certain styles had wars and tests because of the types of kicks(actually attacks and overall style) being taught and where power was to be found. Not every teacher teaches it. Not every teacher knows it.

 

The first thing you need to do is gauge where your power is at before determining where to go with it. After the bag is setup work on putting your hips and body behind each attack. This doesn't mean simply pushing your body towards the target.(That could seriously disrupt your balance) But lies in the timing of certain body positions when each attack is being made.

 

Example on a very well known technique. A simple roundhouse. It is widely taught to twist your hip into the attack. HOWEVER, there is a difference to twisting your hip AS you kick and twisting your hip AT the moment of impact. I'll leave it to you to find out which is better.

 

Add more to that and it's more than just twisting the hip. It's also when do you twist your foundation foot. What do your hands do? Believe it or not your arms and hands play just as vital a role as your legs do in throwing any kick. I can't 'show' you through words, but I hope you get the picture.

 

Build power, like has already been said, through technique. Just make sure your trying to power through proper technique.

 

ps. Don't forget emotion. I'm not talking about anger or determination, but emotion, the fuel of power. Hit with your emotions ringing like a tuning fork. There is where true power is found. After all the physical is said and done place your emotions, ringing true like a tuning fork and BAM! you have it.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

[KickChick]

No it doesn't mean that ... but it certainly doesn't help! And incidentally ckd .... one key to understanding breaking is a basic principle of motion, the more momentum an object has, the more force it can generate. For example, when breaking a brick with a punch, the fist reaches a speed of 11 meters per second (24 miles per hour). At this speed, the hand exerts a whopping force of 3,000 Newtons, or 675 pounds. That amount of force concentrated into an area as small as a fist will break a brick. Human bones can actually resist 40 times more stress than a brick.

 

Bear in mind ... we are focusing on TKD (monkeygirl's style although American TKD I believe).

 

I disagree about the safety .... if you train to break early on in your instruction, you physically (& mentally) become conditioned to break and injuries can occur with inexperience and incorrect technique .

 

If you look on my web site and my school's site also .... you can see (for example) my son at age 8 breaking boards ... they begin at "little dragons" level doing hammerfist between 2 concrete blocks.

 

 

 

I find it highly unusual to not have breaking requirements at a (TKD) black belt test. Wow!! seems a little too "easy" to me!

 

I found that requirement to be the most demanding and exhausting level of my test.

 

I've been breaking for years and haven't "calcified" yet and still can do lots of other stuff with my hands!!

 

Breaking toughens and strengthens the striking surfaces of the body, If you are a novice in breaking, you must first condition your hands for breaking. One traditional method is to lightly strike the edge of the boards used for breaking. However, battering your hands is neither necessary nor desired. Mas Oyama, the great Shotokan master, was a master of breaking. His knuckles had huge calluses covering them from years of breaking. In his latter years, he said he regretted what he had done to his hands. The knife-edge of your hand and the first two knuckles of your fore fist must be conditioned before striking against hard objects. This does not have to be a rigorous process. Just lightly strike these areas against hard objects a few time a day. Using a makiwara or heavy bag can offer this condtioning.

 

 

 

Nice points made Martial Artist!

 

So much can be done to "gain power" ... even those little incidentals that we have failed to mention -- a combination of so many things to accomplish power.

 

_________________

 

KarateForums Sensei

 

1st dan Tae Kwon Do (ITF)

 

Cardio/Fitness Kickboxing Instr.

 

[ This Message was edited by: KickChick on 2002-06-03 15:06 ]

[ckdstudent]

Yes, human bones can, once they are fully hardened and developed. Before that it damages them. Also just because something can withstand an impact doesn't mean its completely undamaged, there are always microfractures which are one of the main causes of calcification. Lots of people don't have their knuckles calcify because of their training but enough do that its not really worth the risk.

 

Eight year olds doing breaks? That's a nice way to malform hands. Injuries aren't always instantaneous, most simply build up over time.

 

Surely the fact that a Shotokan master says that he regrets having done that particular area of his training is a hint?

 

If the board break was the hardest part of your test then you must have fairly easy tests. Actually saying that I could understand it might be the hardest, but certainly not the most demanding.

 

Yep, just lightly tap your bones against solid objects a few times a day, and soon you'll have golf-ball sized knuckles with no feeling, just like Master Mas Oyama.

 

 

[Bon]

On 2002-06-03 12:49, KickChick wrote:

 

For example, when breaking a brick with a punch, the fist reaches a speed of 11 meters per second (24 miles per hour). At this speed, the hand exerts a whopping force of 3,000 Newtons, or 675 pounds. That amount of force concentrated into an area as small as a fist will break a brick. Human bones can actually resist 40 times more stress than a brick.

 

Are you serious - 11m/s ? That's the earth's escape velocity - what rockets have to travel to escape the gravitational pull of the earth..

 

 

[monkeygirl]

WHOOOOOOOAAAA Everyone calm down!! No need to get nasty

 

24 mph isn't that unreasonable. It's not like you're actually moving your hand a whole mile, just a short distance.

 

I know how to properly throw a kick to actually get some "oomph" behind it. I am a brown belt, after all. Granted, I'm not a 5th dan Black, but I'm not a green either

 

I think just after practice and really working at it I'll figure out how to use my body properly. I tried that tonight in class while everyone else was sparring (I still can't spar yet because my right eye is still acting up. I'm still seeing double, and it's been 2 1/2 weeks.). I hadn't really had the opportunity to hit the 100lb bag in a long time, and I was amazed at the distance I could move it! When I was a yellow belt I couldn't move it at all. Now, it flew pretty good. *proud* No, I didn't have a problem with my wrist, a couple times my ankle went funny, but it stopped soon. The bag spun a bit, but that stopped soon too. It was a REEEEALLLY nice feeling pounding that bag. Stress relief !!!

 

Thanks for your encouraging words, everyone! I never would have thought about using the heavy bag. It gives me a nice alternative to weight lifting, which my Mom would never go for.

 

 

[KickChick]

exactly monkeygirl!

 

Yes, 8 yr olds doing breaks (5 yrs. old too!) Not so unheard of ... many, many schools instruct in the area TKD board breaking. Usually just 1 (1/2" to 1 inch pine for the kiddies) but they love to see the accomplishment!

 

"Surely the fact that a Shotokan master says that he regrets having done that particular area of his training is a hint? " --- I said there was no need to batter your hands as Mas Oyama did ... you need to read up on the level of breaking techniques he used ... extra-ordinary!

 

"If the board break was the hardest part of your test then you must have fairly easy tests. Actually saying that I could understand it might be the hardest, but certainly not the most demanding. " -- maybe more so mentally demanding than physical (no not hard, just the boards )... and no not easy tests by no means. Exhausting because of the mental and physical challenge .... 2 hand and foot techniques, 3 boards each ... your goal is to achieve on first try ... (I just happened to get all 4 in one shot!)

 

Your welcome monkeygirl ... and thanks for not ganging up on me too!

 

 

[ckdstudent]

If you think about it you can probably sprint at least 12 miles per hour (about three times an average walk) and a punch is several times faster than a sprint, so I've no objections to the speed estimate for a punch, if anything it might be a little conservative.

 

Rockets are somewhat heavier than a fist, and they're also constantly pumping out fuel to maintain that speed. Then they're also pushing against gravity although on something with as small a mass as a hand that doesn't make too much difference.

 

Just a quick question now that I think of it, do you wear gloves to do the break, even bag gloves? Doesn't reduce your power by much, but pretty effective in preventing injury. Just wondering.

 

As for the eight year olds doing breaking techniques, that I do have a problem with. At that age your bones aren't properly formed and are quite easy to damage for life, if they're breaking very weak boards then maybe, or if they wear good gloves, otherwise its just a bad idea.

 

[ This Message was edited by: ckdstudent on 2002-06-04 11:17 ]

[KickChick]

Breaking techniques are not a goal in themselves. They must be part of the total study of the martial art. They are the means whereby you will perfect your mastery

 

of the martial art. Breaking techniques produce more accuracy and control then does sparring.

 

 

 

No matter how hard you hit something, it will not break if it is moves with the power of the punch. But if your punch moves faster than the target bounces away from it, the target has no choice but to break.

 

Our school limits (multiple) board breaks and advanced techniques in which to break only to the most advanced students.

 

Simple hammerfists, elbow strikes and step behind side kicks are often performed by yellow/green/purple belts.

 

No ... no gloves are used (never heard of such a thing as that!)

 

For advance techniques, adv. students are encouraged to use hand wraps for fists/wrists amd possibly wrapping ankles for hook kicks to protect achilles tendon.

 

We are focusing on the topic of achieving power through technique here .... Power comes through the perfection of breaking.

 

_________________

 

KarateForums Sensei

 

1st dan Tae Kwon Do (ITF)

 

Cardio/Fitness Kickboxing Instr.

 

[ This Message was edited by: KickChick on 2002-06-04 12:08 ]

[ckdstudent]

The perfection of breaking is merely a side-effect of developing power, there are many other methods that help you work on power, breaking is an impressive way to demonstrate that power.