Staff vs Spear

[lordtariel]

It would seem to me that someone who has a lot of experience with a staff should be able to use a spear fairly efficiently without any other training. After all, it's just a staff with a pointy bit on the end, and you do thrusts with a staff as well. Experience tells me though, that there's always more to any weapon. Are there any spear wielders out there that could shine some light on the differences between use of the two weapons?

[ashworth]

never trained with weapons before, but would the spear have a heavier end where the point is or is this compensated by adding more weight on the other end? does that make sense?

[DWx]

Couldn't a spear be thrown? It wouldn't seem likely that you would throw your bo so maybe that would be something new to learn?

[ARADOX]

As a (hopefully) proficient wielder of the bo myself, I would have to say that, judging by the kata (or equivalent) that I've seen people do with the chinese spear, that it's completely different, that said my bo work come from okinawa and not china but still, there seems to be many disagreements between bo kata and chinese spear forms, however in regards to the balance of the weapon I can concede that in actual fact wielders of the bo were supposed to be budoka of above average strength, so I din't belive that the wieght of the spear tip, would have much bearing on the actual use of the thing, that said, a japanese yari, is actually significantly longer than the okinawan bo or the chinese spear, so that lends itself to more battlefield orientated applications wheras the bo and the chinese spear (who by the way are more or less the same lenght and wieght i.e. round about six shaku) are more orientated to personal defence and combat between one or up to about four attackers. The japanese equivalent of this use is the naginata which is obviously a completely different device altogether, what flummoxes me to some degree is that the chinese (or indeed any other culture with the possible exeption of the more scientifically directioned koreans) didn't develop a double ended spear i.e. a point or a small blade at both ends, this, I feel would make for a more balanced anf generally more rounded thing tht the common zulu style one pointed spear, what would also be cool, was if someone came up with a double enden naginata!, unfortunately my carpentry skills are perhaps not up to the task of crafting one, and without a kata or at least a sparring system, I could not begin to form an actual combat system. Back to the bo vs. spear argument however I don't believe it was commonplace for a proctitioner to throw a spear, since none of the forms I have seen dictate this action, and it would have been impractical to carry around more than one spear if one was to use it for any purpose other than hunting, and if hunting was the primary use for these weapons then there would have been no need for a kata or forms to demonstrate to striking/blocking action commonly used with this weapon. and in answer to the thrown bo movement proposed by DWx, no, I really don't believe so, after all why would one simply throw away thier weapon, and if one was into using a ranged alternative, you'd use a bow, crossbow or shuriken (possibly kunai however I don't belive these were practical at all). and you woulden't throw away your sword in combat unless you were absolutely sure of a devestating strike. and this would have been better achieved if you were still in possesion of your weapon, insofar as I am aware the only culture to have ever used throwing spears as a viable alternative to the sling/bow is the greeks and trojans (same people pretty much) and I cannot see why they believed that to be a primary use for such a weapon, however judging by the samples of the mediterranean spear heads, they were much smaller in diameter than the bo or chinese spear, and so much better suited to throwing. Anyone who took the time and energy to read until this point gets my authorisation to have an extra cookie thank you all for your time and patience.

[lordtariel]

Couldn't a spear be thrown? It wouldn't seem likely that you would throw your bo so maybe that would be something new to learn?

I wouldn't think you would want to throw your weapon away though.

[AikiGuy]

I've thought about this one a bit and I agree they would be MOSTLY the same. That is to say, anything you can do with a staff can be done with a spear. But it doesn't work the other way. There would be a few additional things that only work with the spear. For instance, if you miss with a spear thrust, you can pull back and scrape an opponent with the corner of the blade. There are probably a variety of close-range moves that only work with a bladed weapon too. Like just lightly grazing a clothed limb with the tip of a spear will injure at least a little but a bo does virtually nothing.

As far as the point weight affecting the balance as someone mentioned, I think it would if it was a heavier blade so it depends on the selection. If that was the case, maybe you would just have to move one or both hands toward the blade a bit till the balance returns, then wield it as you normally would a bo. Just my thoughts.

[lordtariel]

I don't believe it was commonplace for a proctitioner to throw a spear

They wouldn't throw a spear such as the type I would be referring to. Spears that were thrown were smaller and lighter, and usually designed to become worthless after impact.(After all, you don't want an enemy to pick it up and throw it back at you) As far as I can tell, thrown spears were almost exclusively a western method.

[SBN Doug]

Alas, I haven't started spear yet, but I think it is in my current belt curriculum.

In watching some spear/staff pre-arranged sparring, here is what I've noticed:

While you build on your experience with a staff to learn spear, there still are differences.

With a stab from a staff you typically put more weight behind it to affect a strike, while the stabbing motions of the spear appear more "poking" since it will take less contact to inflict damage. Also, I rarely (if ever) see a one-handed stab from a staff, while I have seen one-handed stabs with a spear.

Also, even though the blunt end of a spear can be used as a staff, you definately see a focus on the attacks coming from the spear end, rather than the balanced attack from both ends you see in a staff.

In general, the motions of the spear seem faster and shorter than those of the standard staff (IMO).

[DWx]

Couldn't a spear be thrown? It wouldn't seem likely that you would throw your bo so maybe that would be something new to learn?

I wouldn't think you would want to throw your weapon away though.

You could throw it if you wanted to. That would be at the point when you were backed up into a corner thinking to yourself about how to get away.

*pointing up into the sky* "What's that?" at which point you'd throw the spear.

Anyway, the spear was the predessor of the javelin.

[DWx]

...and in answer to the thrown bo movement proposed by DWx, no, I really don't believe so, after all why would one simply throw away thier weapon, and if one was into using a ranged alternative, you'd use a bow, crossbow or shuriken (possibly kunai however I don't belive these were practical at all). and you woulden't throw away your sword in combat unless you were absolutely sure of a devestating strike...

Hopefully you wouldn't throw a crossbow...

Joking aside.. I swear I've read something about shorter, lighter spears being thrown.. didn't the greeks use spears a lot in battle? I suppose it depends on what type of spear, if it was shorter and lighter then maybe you'd throw. If indeed it was more like a bo, then mabye you wouldn't..