Tang Soo Do

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

well yes that is to be expected, and we as tang so do-ists are derividive of the tang method of kung fu, and soo bahk do which was hwang kee's original style he founded, but later changed to tang soo do becuse soo bahk do wasnt as popular. and yes the chil sung forms are fairly modern. we are very similar to japanese styles because in all honesty we all came from the same place...it all started at the shaolin temple, every art. there are similarities that would freak you out they are so similar in arts that you would think to be complete opposites. so all in all we have all stolen from each other, but once we did, we made it our own, thats why tang soo do is known as a 'hard' style. but tkd on the other hand is sport karate.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

Chiulli, There is no Tang method of Kung Fu. The Tang in Tang Soo Do is from the hanja used to write karate, not relationships to kung fu. According to Hwang Kee, the original martial art he taught was Hwa Soo Do not Soo Bahk Do. Soo Bahk was referenced in korean texts, but was chosen as the new name of the martial art of the Moo Duk Kwan in honor not as a tie in to an ancient martial art. Us Tang Soo Do practitioners are similar to japanese stylists because the Grandmasters of many of the Kwans of the mid 20th century Kwan's actually trained in japanese karate. Tang Soo Do forms were transmitted to us not from China, but from Japan and Okinawa.

alright as soon as i get the chance i'll make sure my master knows there is no tang method of kung fu. and yes tang soo do in korean for most part means karate, not the direct translation but the meaning translation. and i did not mean to say original but soo bahk do came before tang soo do which is why we study the Moo duk kwan STYLE of the ART tang soo do. and you will find similarities to japanese AND chinese in tang soo do because martial arts all came from the same place, and branched off to their own ways which is why tang soo do is a Korean style because it was made with korean thoughts and ideals in korea by a korean and so on and so forth.

[JWLuiza]

alright as soon as i get the chance i'll make sure my master knows there is no tang method of kung fu. and yes tang soo do in korean for most part means karate, not the direct translation but the meaning translation. and i did not mean to say original but soo bahk do came before tang soo do which is why we study the Moo duk kwan STYLE of the ART tang soo do. and you will find similarities to japanese AND chinese in tang soo do because martial arts all came from the same place, and branched off to their own ways which is why tang soo do is a Korean style because it was made with korean thoughts and ideals in korea by a korean and so on and so forth.

Chuilli, there are several masters from the Moo Duk Kwan (no longer, but were highly involved) over at warrior-scholar.com/smf for you to talk with about the history of the Moo Duk Kwan. While your description of the Moo Duk Kwan STYLE of TSD is probably accurate for what you teach/learn, there is actually no Moo Duk Kwan that teaches TSD anymore, they teach Soo Bahk Do. The hangul for Tang refers to the Tang Dynasty, an era of chinese history and not to a specific method of kung fu (sip pal gi in korean). It is the same characters the japanese use to write karate! Same EXACT word, different pronounciations. Searching the internet I can find no mention of Tang style Kung Fu as well... Perhaps you could point me towards a link?

Yes, there are many schools out there that teach Moo Duk Kwan Tang Soo Do, but they have no official ties to the ACTUAL Kwan... Neither do I, or I'd be wearing midnight blue instead of black.

But, I would still like to know why we perform almost exact replications of Japanese forms according to your master...

[bushido_man96]

Us Tang Soo Do practitioners are similar to japanese stylists because the Grandmasters of many of the Kwans of the mid 20th century Kwan's actually trained in japanese karate. Tang Soo Do forms were transmitted to us not from China, but from Japan and Okinawa.

I agree. It is the same with TKD. During the occupation, many Koreans were educated in Japan, and thus got exposed to Japanese Karate (most likely Shotokan). In the Encyclopedia of Taekwon-do, General Choi mentions that he had training in Karate during his time in Japan, so there is bound to be similarities in the styles.

I did read that Hwang Kee desinged the later forms that you mention:

Later, the Moo Duk Kwan released Hwa Sun, Yuk Ro, and Chil Sun forms as a "modern" interpretation of a Korean war manual.

I read that he used moves depicted in the Muye Dobo Tongi, which is an ancient military text of Korea. Perhaps he did take some of the moves listed in this text, and put them in his new forms. I think that this is a great gesture, delving into Korea's military past. However, I don't know if it makes it more 'traditional' than TKD. I do know that there is also a Moo Duk Kwan branch of TKD as well.

Again, not all TKD is sport oriented. I hardly ever compete in TKD, although I have before. There are just as many Karate stylists out there that are sport-oriented, because they enjoy it. It doesn't automatically make it more 'modernized,' in my opinion.

[bushido_man96]

I can't remember for certain, but I think that the unarmed combat techniques listed in the Muye Dobo Tongi are referred to as Kwon Bup. It may have been Su Bak, but I can't remember for sure. I'll have to check it out.

[JWLuiza]

I can't remember for certain, but I think that the unarmed combat techniques listed in the Muye Dobo Tongi are referred to as Kwon Bup. It may have been Su Bak, but I can't remember for sure. I'll have to check it out.

Well we lost our other conversant, but you've got your facts IMO in the general area. I am interested in the chil sun and yuk ro forms... I've never seen Hwa Sun, and from what I've heard, it's already changed from the 2nd volume of SOo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and should be released to the Moo Duk Kwan shortly.

[bushido_man96]

I would like to know more about them as well. I have one book on Tang Soo Do, and would like to get more; I just don't know where to look for sure.

[JWLuiza]

I would like to know more about them as well. I have one book on Tang Soo Do, and would like to get more; I just don't know where to look for sure.

As far as I know, you won't find hwa sun in a book other than the 2nd volume published by the U.S. Soo Bahk Do. I've also heard they've revamped Hwa Sun and will be changing the official version in the near future.

Ho Sik Pak and Kang Uk Lee both have books with various chil sun and yuk ro forms in them. However, the body mechanics are significantly different, that I would suggest purchasing DVDs. The Mi Guk Kwan has purchasable DVDs with both the older karate based forms and the new chil sun/yuk ro forms.

[bushido_man96]

Cool, thanks John.