Tang Soo Do

[bushido_man96]

I have heard that many TSD schools and orgs include a version of Bassai Dai. I have heard of a few TKD schools that do so as well. Does TSD have as much of its roots in Shotokan as TKD does?

I'm told that tangsudo is just Koreanized shotokan, it's more shotokanny than taekwondo but not as shotokanny as shotokan

I believe they practice a kata called balsae which is the Korean version of bassai dai.

That is an interesting analogy. Thanks for sharing.

[learning kempo-karate]

Hello, Many years ago (70's) . Tang Soo Do was one of my first martial art class's. Train with them for less than a year. The guy that fought Bruce Lee in "Enter the Dragon". The tall guy with the scar....was a friend of my Tang Soo Do Instrutor and came by to say hello to him and the class.

That person also train in Tang Soo Do. Everyone knows this is what Chuck Norris train in Korea.

One remembers the training as hard and very good art to learn. Tang Soo Do is still an excellant art to learn......Aloha

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

well just as a general comment, tang soo do is more of a traditional martial art having its roots thoroughly in korea, while tae kwon do is a modern art founded in the 1950s, i wanna say 1955, and its a sport spinoff of tsd, except like i said, its sport karate, not an art, and they also took form some other places, so no we are not as 'shotokan-ey' (excuse me for making my own words) as tae kwon do, they are much more modernized, they are just associated with us[tsd] because they take from alot of our traditional stuff.

 

in tang soo,

 

K.Chuilli

[bushido_man96]

well just as a general comment, tang soo do is more of a traditional martial art having its roots thoroughly in korea, while tae kwon do is a modern art founded in the 1950s, i wanna say 1955, and its a sport spinoff of tsd, except like i said, its sport karate, not an art, and they also took form some other places, so no we are not as 'shotokan-ey' (excuse me for making my own words) as tae kwon do, they are much more modernized, they are just associated with us[tsd] because they take from alot of our traditional stuff.

 

in tang soo,

 

K.Chuilli

I take a very traditional form of TKD. We don't focus on sparring a lot. We do a lot of technique work, forms, and one-steps. The forms that I do are the ITF forms, the Ch'ang On system, created by General Choi.

The WTF organization of TKD has made thier sparring system the more "modernized" sport that you see in the Olympics today. There are some ITF fighters who could compete with them, but it is just a matter of training methods and focus.

Many people think that "modernized" Martial Arts are "watered down." Modernization is not always a bad thing...and "traditional" is not always a good thing.

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

well, that is all very true but, the majority of your traditional materials are taken from other art forms which is fine, many styles do that but, unfortunately for tkd people, its considered 'modernized' because you dont have the theory and philosophy behind some of the materials you(tkd) borrowed. and that is actually the only reason other styles and martial artists rank on tkd. that and because its 'sport' application.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

[bushido_man96]

well, that is all very true but, the majority of your traditional materials are taken from other art forms which is fine, many styles do that...

Which materials are taken from other styles? Which styles are they taken from? I think that this can be said about many Japanese and Korean styles, if you feel that the root of the Martial Arts in Asia is due to the influence of Boddiharma, coming from India to China and teaching the monks (I am not saying that I do believe that...I am just throwing it out there). The same could be said of Tang Soo Do.

...its considered 'modernized' because you dont have the theory and philosophy behind some of the materials you(tkd) borrowed. and that is actually the only reason other styles and martial artists rank on tkd. that and because its 'sport' application.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

What theory and philosophy are you discussing here? The tenets of the Hwarang Do are prevalent in many of the TKD schools that I have been a part of.

Would you be willing to share some of the traditions and philosophies that Tang Soo Do carry? I am sure that there are some differences, but that is to be expected when comparing any number of art forms.

[JWLuiza]

well, that is all very true but, the majority of your traditional materials are taken from other art forms which is fine, many styles do that but, unfortunately for tkd people, its considered 'modernized' because you dont have the theory and philosophy behind some of the materials you(tkd) borrowed. and that is actually the only reason other styles and martial artists rank on tkd. that and because its 'sport' application.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

TSD is also borrowed from other martial arts. The history of 1000s of years old tradition is also marketing promoted by Korean nationals after the Japanese occupation. There is no evidence that Hwang Kee was a taekyyon master. He learned a little kung fu while in manchuria (Hence Moo Duk Kwan teaching Sorim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwan forms). Hwang Kee originally taught forms from Karate Books he found at a manchurian railroad. According to some scholars, he added these forms because his original Hwa Soo Do was not successful. Many more were familliar with Tang Soo Do (the korean pronounciation of Karate). Later, the Moo Duk Kwan released Hwa Sun, Yuk Ro, and Chil Sun forms as a "modern" interpretation of a Korean war manual. However if you look at the training of Tang Soo Do schools, they almost match 100% with Japanese styles like shotokan.

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

well, that is all very true but, the majority of your traditional materials are taken from other art forms which is fine, many styles do that but, unfortunately for tkd people, its considered 'modernized' because you dont have the theory and philosophy behind some of the materials you(tkd) borrowed. and that is actually the only reason other styles and martial artists rank on tkd. that and because its 'sport' application.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

TSD is also borrowed from other martial arts. The history of 1000s of years old tradition is also marketing promoted by Korean nationals after the Japanese occupation. There is no evidence that Hwang Kee was a taekyyon master. He learned a little kung fu while in manchuria (Hence Moo Duk Kwan teaching Sorim Jang Kwon and Tae Kuk Kwan forms). Hwang Kee originally taught forms from Karate Books he found at a manchurian railroad. According to some scholars, he added these forms because his original Hwa Soo Do was not successful. Many more were familliar with Tang Soo Do (the korean pronounciation of Karate). Later, the Moo Duk Kwan released Hwa Sun, Yuk Ro, and Chil Sun forms as a "modern" interpretation of a Korean war manual. However if you look at the training of Tang Soo Do schools, they almost match 100% with Japanese styles like shotokan.

well yes that is to be expected, and we as tang so do-ists are derividive of the tang method of kung fu, and soo bahk do which was hwang kee's original style he founded, but later changed to tang soo do becuse soo bahk do wasnt as popular. and yes the chil sung forms are fairly modern. we are very similar to japanese styles because in all honesty we all came from the same place...it all started at the shaolin temple, every art. there are similarities that would freak you out they are so similar in arts that you would think to be complete opposites. so all in all we have all stolen from each other, but once we did, we made it our own, thats why tang soo do is known as a 'hard' style. but tkd on the other hand is sport karate.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

well, that is all very true but, the majority of your traditional materials are taken from other art forms which is fine, many styles do that...

Which materials are taken from other styles? Which styles are they taken from? I think that this can be said about many Japanese and Korean styles, if you feel that the root of the Martial Arts in Asia is due to the influence of Boddiharma, coming from India to China and teaching the monks (I am not saying that I do believe that...I am just throwing it out there). The same could be said of Tang Soo Do.

yes the same can be said of every art, because as above, we all come from the originals who started the different forms of 'karates' at the amazing shaolin temple.

...its considered 'modernized' because you dont have the theory and philosophy behind some of the materials you(tkd) borrowed. and that is actually the only reason other styles and martial artists rank on tkd. that and because its 'sport' application.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

What theory and philosophy are you discussing here? The tenets of the Hwarang Do are prevalent in many of the TKD schools that I have been a part of.

well, im not talking about text book theory, im talking about what people call the 'secrets' of certain styles, and im not saying tkd is less of tkd because of it, its just dissappointing you're missing out. im talking about hidden theories, the true bunkai theory in the forms, and everything that some of the black belts that started creating tkd didnt get to take with them.

Would you be willing to share some of the traditions and philosophies that Tang Soo Do carry? I am sure that there are some differences, but that is to be expected when comparing any number of art forms.

oh yes there is bound to be differences everywhere, and i would be willing to share with any tang soo do practitioner who is willing to learn. just like me and my disappointing bukai situation i was talking about on the other thread, you have to ask the right questions. which is why, if you are just there to learn what is given to you, thats all you will learn, but the people that dig and prod for information like you and i, are the people that truly get the point of what we are doing, and why we are waiting so long to gain rank, because now is the most confusing time of a black belts life.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

[JWLuiza]

well yes that is to be expected, and we as tang so do-ists are derividive of the tang method of kung fu, and soo bahk do which was hwang kee's original style he founded, but later changed to tang soo do becuse soo bahk do wasnt as popular. and yes the chil sung forms are fairly modern. we are very similar to japanese styles because in all honesty we all came from the same place...it all started at the shaolin temple, every art. there are similarities that would freak you out they are so similar in arts that you would think to be complete opposites. so all in all we have all stolen from each other, but once we did, we made it our own, thats why tang soo do is known as a 'hard' style. but tkd on the other hand is sport karate.

in tang soo,

k.chuilli

Chiulli, There is no Tang method of Kung Fu. The Tang in Tang Soo Do is from the hanja used to write karate, not relationships to kung fu. According to Hwang Kee, the original martial art he taught was Hwa Soo Do not Soo Bahk Do. Soo Bahk was referenced in korean texts, but was chosen as the new name of the martial art of the Moo Duk Kwan in honor not as a tie in to an ancient martial art. Us Tang Soo Do practitioners are similar to japanese stylists because the Grandmasters of many of the Kwans of the mid 20th century Kwan's actually trained in japanese karate. Tang Soo Do forms were transmitted to us not from China, but from Japan and Okinawa.