My son got into a fight at school!

[New Beginner]

Hi Kez,

I'm sorry to read about this and I know it's very distressing for you being his mum, but Ryan's probably learnt alot about himself from this situation. I'm not going to pass judgement on whether anything is lacking in training, he is only nine years old and in the UK beating people into the the ground because they grabbed you around the throat or entered your personal space is not accepted by the courts as 'minimum force' so I would not like to see a precedent set for his future. It's very easy for people to sit back after an event and say 'well he should have been trained to say this or do that' but it's impossible to re-create a real situation in training, no matter how 'realistic' the scenarios you create, you cannot stimulate the 'fight or flight' responses that paralyse so many able martial artists because they recognise that the threat simply isn't real. For us adults it's fine, we can enter Knockdown, Muay Thai, Boxing or MMA competitions or go and work as bouncers or police officers in order to stimulate the adrenaline, but only a psychopath can ever remain totally unaffected by the stress of genuine confrontation and people all react differently. I think Ryan needs support and perhaps less of a fuss about the situation as possible. I had similar situations at school and whilst distressing they were quickly forgotten and we were so fickle as kids that we were often friends again the next day. If I'm honest I have to say I would have been mortified if my mum had come up to the school, I'd never have lived it down. Maybe times have changed. I hope he feels better about it soon, young kids can be really horrible to eachother. I'm not saying that the situation isn't serious and it definitely needs tackling, but he needs to find his feet at this point more than ever and most of all he shouldn't feel in any way ashamed, but he probably does. That's just from my own humble experience Kez. Good luck.

[gzk]

Hi Kez,

I'm sorry to read about this and I know it's very distressing for you being his mum, but Ryan's probably learnt alot about himself from this situation. I'm not going to pass judgement on whether anything is lacking in training, he is only nine years old and in the UK beating people into the the ground because they grabbed you around the throat or entered your personal space is not accepted by the courts as 'minimum force' so I would not like to see a precedent set for his future.

Not that Wikipedia should ever be taken as gospel, but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_English_law.

When I talk about personal space being entered as a trigger for "fight mode", I am not talking about someone bumping into you at the shops, or bowling you over because they were running back to catch a ball in the schoolyard. I am talking about (for example) a person who has persistently entered your personal space in a menacing fashion, ignoring your attempts at de-escalation, shouting that they are going to "knock your (expletive) block off", and has their fists clenched. Or, for a more age-realistic scenario, a bully advancing on you, declaring that you are "dead meat", who has his fist raised in preparation to strike you with it.

For a judge, jury, or teacher to disbelieve that an attack was imminent in a situation like that would require some pretty impressive chutzpah.

[New Beginner]

Well I don't disagree with you but, Wikipedia aside, experience of UK police and courts handling of self defence cases that I know of, often defy belief, I urge anyone to watch the BBC Panorama documentary about Fighting Back that was screened last night, hopefully it will be screened on US BBC channels at some point.

Ultimately I just wouldn't like to see a nice well-behaved kid get a taste for violence at such a young age, which is a danger that perhaps pales against the danger of him not protecting himself I know. If only these situations were as clear in real life as they are in training.

[Bushido58266]

at my masters school i notice this alot with the younger combatants. 1. definitely tell your sensei, 2. ur son will get over his defeat and you just have to keep on encouraging his karate, the best thing u can do for someone who has a broken ego is encourage them in the better points 3. he is still young and has probably started his training recently, he just has to know that martial arts takes time, it took me 8 years to start noticing dramatic improvements in my fighting. i hope all works out well for u 2 and i hope ur son sticks with karate because he will see improvements soon it just takes time and practice

[Shotokan-kez]

Yes i agree with you all, i will keep taking him to karate. They have a special kids class on a saturday but unfortunatly he can't go to that because he visits his dad and he won't take him.

Well i had the meeting in school and the head said the kids involved have been severely punished and he has assured me that it's the end of it and it will never happen again. I do believe him because i know it has settled in school and Ryan seems a little happier.

He has also said that the main ringleader has been put on a behaviour report and he is supervised at all times. Ryan has been really big and brave about it all, he has made friends with all the boys involved, but not to play with, just to say hello to.

I am happy with the way the school has dealt with the situation, it just grinds me down when i think that these kids are only 9 and 10 years old, kids can be so cruel sometimes.

I took bullying for four years when i was in school, it was constant and by the same group of girls, after four years i beat one of them up because i couldn't take any more and i just lost my cool. I don't want that to happen with Ryan, thats why i took it so seriously and why it bothered me so much.

[lordtariel]

School has always been a rough place. I'm glad you and your son are satisfied with the results of this though.

[jaymac]

Kez, I am glad that things are better. I hope Ryan will gain back some of the confidence he lost in this situation really soon and beable to put his heart back into Karate. This situation should be a lesson for all of us. Bullying is a problem that has escalated out of control all over the world and it doesn't only occur to teens or at school. Children of all ages are bullied at school, on the computer, in their neighborhood, etc... Unfortunately, Martial Arts is not a fool proof system. You could still get your rear end handed to you as a 35 year old 4th Dan Black Belt just as easily as a 9 year old little boy with a purple belt. It is the one who has no fear and is so over confident in their abilities that should be more wary. They are probably the ones who display their skills publicly and show off. Your son did nothing wrong, and he is not weak. He had to deal with something huge for him, and it is going to take a little to overcome, but he will. He shouldn't feel that Karate failed him. Our way of dealing with bullies has failed him.

[Red89]

Hey kez, interesting topic, Im happy now things are beginning to get better now for you and your son

When I was 8-9 I got into my first major fight i think, I had been training karate at this time for only about a year and a half, I thought I could beat anyone, I was wrong, I got quite badly beaten. At first I cried abit but then it turned to anger and then determination. I almost took it upon myself to make sure I was never beaten again. It was almost like my training catalyst. Although I was a very young boy from then on in my karate class all I saw was the boys face when I trained, eventually as I got older I forgot about him but I continued to train hard and when I moved into secondary school I got into a fight again, although i did not start it. I won however. i felt so releived, as if all my hard training sinse that day when I was 8 had paid off. Im 17 now and I've never lost in a "real" fight sinse that day when I was 8, however I've only been in about 4 altogether I still continue to train hard, I dont think about that anymore but reading this I remembered my experience. In all honesty... I think my fight when I was 8 helped me.

its hard, but i would really try to encourage Ryan to continue with his Martial Arts, He will improve as he gets older and begin to understand more.

I wasnt into Martial arts all that much until I became about 14 you see, I had been training sinse I was 8 however, I liked it but I wasn't like I am now. Im obsessed with all MA now. lol

however I do know it was different for Ryan, poor kid had more than 1 guy beating on him.

[Shotokan-kez]

Thanks for your kind words and support guys!

[The BB of C]

Hi guys. Last week on friday at school he got into a fight in the playground. It wasn't his fault and he was basically a target for bullies. A boy and his friend grabbed Ryan by the throat and was swinging him round. Then the main boy put him in the head lock while the other kicked him. They then threw him to the ground, stamped on him and kicked him. While it was going on a crowd of kids surrounded him so he couldn't get away. That same day i had a phone call from school to explain what had happened and to inform me that the bullies were being dealt with and that their parents had been called. The thing that bothered me the most is that these are 9 year old kids and that was a viscious attack, on my boy, it brought a tear to my eye.

Anyway when Ryan came home from school we talked about it, then his karate training came into it. He said he didnt see the point in doing karate anymore when the kids still beat up on him. He didnt even try to defend himself and he thought that was bad. He is embarressed and would hardly talk about it.

In training on monday night he did dreadful, put absolutely no effort or work into it and he was constantly being told off from sensei because he was acting like he didnt care. He is a purple belt and was even messing up his basics, that is so not like him at all. I'm not sure weather i should tell sensei about what happened, but im wondering if this may explain his sudden change of attitude towards his karate?? He seems to have lost his confidence in the dojo, it's awful to see!

Thanks for listening guys.

Kez x

I am not going to tell you how to raise your son especially because I'm a kid myself. But I would suggest showing him the importance of applying his training to the real world in his every day life and show him how.

May I ask what his dojo is like, do they spar, and what the sparring is like? Also I would like to suggest maybe training him to be ready to fight yourself? I was your son once and my older brother taught me himself and it did without a doubt come in very usefull.