Returning after a long time away.

[still kicking]

Several people have posted on similar topics, but I don't know if anyone's situation is quite like mine. I returned to karate training at the beginning of this year, after being away for more than 20 years! I know, I find it hard to believe myself. It is the same school and the same organization, although a different sensei. In the past I had attained the rank of shodan-ho, which means it was a provisional black belt and so not officially recognized by the head organization. Actually the current sensei was a student back when I was training, and has been very gracious about acknowledging me as a teacher of his.

I am thrilled to be back training again, as I never did find any form of exercise that was enjoyable to me in the 20+ years I was gone. Now I am back to being a karate fanatic, and usually train 4 or 5 times a week. Here's the thing, though. Of course I am being required to start over from white belt, and I'm fine with that since I was gone for so long. However, the current sensei promotes students much more slowly than my first sensei, and it usually takes students from 8 to 10 years to earn their black belts! I earned my first BB in 4 1/2 years, and now after training for a year I'm only 8th kyu (starting from 10th). My sensei has very high standards, and our school is recognized for having very good basics and we always do well in tournaments. My problem is that I don't want to care about what rank I am, but I do! I have been reading other people's opinions on this board on this topic, and I completely agree that the color of the strip of cloth holding your gi closed shouldn't matter, but I have to admit that I find it demoralizing to be wearing a blue belt after having earned a black, especially knowing it will take years to earn it back. Part of it is that I want to get back into teaching, I am now in my 50's, and I don't hace unlimited time. (In case you're wondering, I'm in pretty good shape even though I'm so old , and the muscle memory is strong.) Sorry about rambling -- My main point is, I guess, I wish my ego wasn't so caught up in this, but I love my school and the people in it, and I greatly respect my sensei, even though the extreme perfectionism makes me crazy sometimes. Another thing that makes me crazy is that we don't have regular promotion tests, but the sensei invites us to test when we seem ready, and I feel like pushing it more but I don't. Any ideas for overcoming ego and adjusting to the idea of having to take many years to "re-earn" a black belt?

[sonofkanga]

talk

to your schools Sensei about your feelings.You could probably work out together a speededup program tailored sepcialy for you.

[Sohan]

This may not be the answer you were looking for, but I'll give my 2 cents anyway.

Personally, I wouldn't have gone back to the same school. It's very difficult ego-wise to start over as you have, though my hat is off to you for the effort. I know you are enthusiastic about your style, and your school seems to be of substantial quality, but from what you described you are likely to have a tough time maintaining an "empty cup" in this situation.

I would have chosen another art. Besides, with your background and maturity, you might find another martial art more enriching anyways, at least as compared to back in the old days.

With respect,

Sohan

[Shotokan-kez]

I would have a talk to the sensei. A lot of clubs round here just put say a yellow belt on and you and see how you go for a while, then the next. I think it's fab you have got back into it after being away for so long. And you are showing determination which is also a good thing. Have a chat with him, see what he says. He may set up a special test for you and give you a higher belt.

[bushido_man96]

First of all, welcome to KarateForums, and welcome back to the Martial Arts!

If I were you, I would like to ask the sensei why there have been so many changes made in the curriculum, as to the rate of testings and promotions. I can understand that he wants everyone to be ready when it comes time to test, however, this does seem a bit excessive.

I do feel that there are certain requirements that should be met before a student is able to move onto the next level, and these will vary from one instructor to the other. This really seems like a paradox in the martial arts. I have seen the arguments against the 2 year black belts of some styles, and now we see the complete opposite, the 10 year black belt.

What it really comes down to, in the martial arts, I believe, is time and experience. In your current style, it sounds like you would be an intermediate rank after around 5 years, the half-way point. However, you will also see that there will be others that are black belts by this time in other organizations. Another problem is that you will be an intermediate rank, with 5 years experience, sparring at tournaments against intermediate ranks with around 1 year, or a year and a half's worth experience. Sure, you may be tearing up the tournament circuit, but it is agianst much less skilled practitioners, due only to the excessive time you have put in at your rank. Can you feel good about that? Then these guys will move on, become black belts, and you will still be stuck cruising the circuit at the intermediate level. You will be a great intermediate student, but, will you be learning any advanced techniques? This is where the black belts that you used to compete with will pass you by.

I have used the tournament circuit as an example, but it is only one scenario in a case of many. I would discuss it with the sensei, and then go from there.

[AikiGuy]

S.K.,

Glad to see you back in action! This is inspirational since I too had a long absence from MA. It was not nearly as long as yours though. I took 5 or 6 years off due to a leg injury. Then returned to the same teacher. I was fortunate to keep my green belt (7th kyu) since the teacher's policy reserved his right to demote returning students as he sees fit. Sometimes they would drop one belt if they were a little rusty. Other times they would go back to white belt. He knew my situation was unavoidable and also that I was very dedicated to practicing. I assume this is why he did not drop my rank since I was sure to get back into studying at an obsessed pace just as always and return to my former skill level. I was however a bit embarrassed that other green belts (and even some lower belts) were doing things better than I was. I almost felt silly for claiming that rank. This is why most teachers drop ranks: because every rank is an example and source of knowlege to lower ranks. Although I wore green, I could not offer much help to yellow belts trying to remember a kata or correct a movement. So I completely understand this policy. (Still sucks though.)

On the up side, I did progress through my "review" period rather quickly and started testing with the other greens. There was also a student who was a Brown belt back even before I left (same school, different instructor). Since his absence was much longer, plus it was a different teacher, he dropped back to white belt. But he was so good before that he zoomed through the ranks and was back at brown belt (3rd kyu) in under 2 years). He is now a 4th dan and I am only a 1st dan. So he did fine after almost 10 years off. My whole point for this story is that you may get off to a slow start but as things come back, you will find that some things you recall after only a few repetitions while others will need to practice for weeks to get it. Soon you will zoom past the other ranks and be on your way. Let us know how it goes. Good luck!

[still kicking]

Thanks for all of your kind responses. I'll add some further thoughts when I have more time, but for now I would just like to make a couple of things clear. When we enter tournaments, the divisions are determined by number of years training rather than by rank. Our green belts ususally end up competing against black belts. This eliminates the possibility of a sensei deliberately holding his or her students back so they can do better in tournaments, but in other ways maybe is not so fair. Also, I did talk to my sensei at the beginning about rank and etc. He said that I had to test for all of the ranks, but I could test as often as once every month or 2. In reality, though, it hasn't worked out that way, both because of time limitations and his perfectionism. As I've already mentioned, we don't have regular evaluations, and testing is done one or 2 students at a time, after class. (And not after every class at that.) I asked sensei at the end of October if I could test for purple belt soon (7th kyu), and told him the things I had been working on and that I thought had improved. He said seemed like he thought I was ready, and said "after the tournament", which was early November. The tournament came and went, I asked sensei about it again, he looked at the 2 kata I needed to perform, and proceeded to give me feedback on a bunch of minute details, still saying nothing about testing. Don't get me wrong, I am happy to strive to improve my karate in every class for as long as I am training, but it seems like he wants black belt level of performance just to get 7th kyu! I should also say, as objectively as I can be, that I think I perform at least as well, and in some cases much better, than the students who are ranked above me, in terms of form, speed, focus, power, and "presense" or spirit. I'm not trying to make it sound like I think I'm all that, but I was pretty good back in the day, and a lot of it has stayed with me. I'm rambling again, sorry. I'm thinking about what some other people on here have said about possibly looking for another school, but for some reason this place has become a part of me and I would hate to leave. I guess choices are 1) to stay and deal with things the way they are 2) to keep pushing sensei about testing, though I have to say it feels a bit like begging, and 3) go to another school. Any further thoughts would be much appreciated!

[bushido_man96]

It sounds to me like the instructor is a little to much of a perfectionist; he may be obsessive.

If it were me, I think I would switch styles as well. I think that you can be held in a rank too long some times.

[The-G-Man]

I know here you're coming from. I returned to training 18 months ago after an absence of 26 years.

This time around I've thrown my ego out of the window and train for me, not those watching me. I don't care what belt colour I wear. As long as I'm improving (slowly), keeping fit and injury free, that's what counts most in my book.

Hope it all goes well for you!

[obiwansbane]

go to walmart buy a black belt and wear it when hes not watching

lol jk, since you have tried talking to your instructor about this, i see nothing else you can really do... if your tournament circuit runs by years, you will be sparring the blackbelts anyways so that isnt a problem, (provided he teaches u katas for more advanced than your current belt... heian yondan against a basai dai? aint happening...) you are a much bigger man than myself as i wouldve quit a loooong time ago... but if you are determined... prove yourself, perfect your katas to the point where he cannot point out any minute errors... he has no choice but to promote you... also outdoing higher ranks (as mean as it is and i know u shouldnt brag about it but it works) in your forms and sparring will make him see that he has a student with higher potential than somebody with 3 ranks on him... once again... if hes a good instructor, no choice but to grade..

i have a feeling that your instructor likes to go with time trained for belts as opposed to a standardized list of can this person do so and so techniques, do they have stances that are good, nice speed, nice power etc...

our school has a little pamphlet that shows you what is expected of each belt level. Ask your instructor for a short little listing of what he expects from his higher belts and then next class show him that you can do those and much more

good luck