Do we need to ask permission?

[Chuilli, Kyo Sah Nim]

respect goes along way, just so happens martial arts happened to be based largely on it. it all depends how you look at respect, and for some people...well lets just say they close their eyes.

[HongKongFooey]

Yes respect goes a long way, but it is also a two way street. I respect the guys that I train with and learn from because they are good people, not because they have a black belt. Even if I no longer had the desire to train with them, we would still be friends. When I cross train it will be more of "hey check this cool stuff out" as opposed to "please can I train with this guy too?"

Rank in the martial arts world only means something in the martial arts world. Martial arts is not my religion, and I refuse to call another man master.

[lordtariel]

Yes respect goes a long way, but it is also a two way street. I respect the guys that I train with and learn from because they are good people, not because they have a black belt. Even if I no longer had the desire to train with them, we would still be friends. When I cross train it will be more of "hey check this cool stuff out" as opposed to "please can I train with this guy too?"

Rank in the martial arts world only means something in the martial arts world. Martial arts is not my religion, and I refuse to call another man master.

I would say the difference is you should be asking your sensei for advice about cross training(whether he thinks it's a good idea, why, what's a good complimenting art, ect...) rather than asking for permission.

[bushido_man96]

Yes respect goes a long way, but it is also a two way street. I respect the guys that I train with and learn from because they are good people, not because they have a black belt. Even if I no longer had the desire to train with them, we would still be friends. When I cross train it will be more of "hey check this cool stuff out" as opposed to "please can I train with this guy too?"

Rank in the martial arts world only means something in the martial arts world. Martial arts is not my religion, and I refuse to call another man master.

I would say the difference is you should be asking your sensei for advice about cross training(whether he thinks it's a good idea, why, what's a good complimenting art, ect...) rather than asking for permission.

More or less, I think you are close here. I think that the instructor should be able to admit to what he doesn't know, and then make suggestions about ways to shore up the deficiencies; as in places to go, etc.

[ps1]

If it's something you feel compelled to do (learn another art) I feel the instructors should be well informed of your decision. However, permission is not necessary. It should be more of an open discussion about your development as a martial artist. If your current instructor can't handle the fact that someone might know something he/she does not, they may not be a good instructor anyway. I think, in America anyway, many instructors just expect you to eventually learn other things from other people.

However, the open discussion allow for you both to set some basic ground rules of what's expected. For example: "When your at my dojo, I expect you to practice your roundhouse this way, not they way they teach you over there." or "Please do not promote the other school in this school, Don't show grappling techniques in my karate school" ect...

The ground rules will help keep everything on an even keel and ensure no feelings are hurt or toes get stepped on.

[YoungMan]

My advice to a student on cross-training:

1. White belt-color belt: Don't bother, you have enough to worry about.

2. 1st-3rd Dan: Ask permission to cross train. My answer will depend on several factors-how much benefit will you derive, your loyalty to me, your physical and/or mental well being etc. Heed my answer. If I say no, then going against my wishes is a serious breach of respect.

3. 4th Dan and above: No permission necessary. I started in Aikido after 4th Dan and didn't need to ask permission. Our GM's son started BJJ after 4th Dan.

[Montana]

I don't think you need to ask permission in as much as you need to at least tell your sensei that you're going to take another martial art. Some instructors, myself included, aren't real hot on students doing that.

It takes many. MANY years to master just one martial art. I've been doing the same one for over 30 years now and still haven't got it down yet, nor do I expect I ever will. Training in two or more at the same time dosen't do justice to either of them. Find one that suits you best and dive into it full out. If it's not what you expect out of an art, then quit and move on until you do find what you desire.

[bushido_man96]

I personally think the idea of "mastery" is very amibiguous, especially when it comes to the Martial Arts. Many people say that you need to "master the basics" before moving into another style, and I just don't think that it is necessary. I think it is a cover, really. I think it is verbiage that many instructors use to keep students from wandering off to other styles, and leaving their styles.

As people, we are used to putting a lot on our plates at one time, anyways. Look at the way we approach high school and college. How many classes do we take at a time? In high school, it is around 6-8 a day. In college, full time students take around 15 credit hours. We still manage to juggle everything, and accept is as the norm. Martial Arts training can be done in duos as well.

[YoungMan]

As a martial arts instructor, I don't expect to be regarded as a demi-god and groveled to. However, I still believe in the traditional master-student relationship, where the student respects me enough to ask permission to cross train.

I realize some schools and instructors don't require permission, and even actively encourage cross training. However, students that have trained under me know and understand that our relationship is much more than that; that what I teach to them is more than simply a marketable commodity that they learn when they are not doing another martial art on off nights. It goes much deeper. Out of respect to our instructors and the role in their lives that we play, our students always ask permission to learn another art.

[HongKongFooey]

As a martial arts instructor, I don't expect to be regarded as a demi-god and groveled to. However, I still believe in the traditional master-student relationship, where the student respects me enough to ask permission to cross train.

I realize some schools and instructors don't require permission, and even actively encourage cross training. However, students that have trained under me know and understand that our relationship is much more than that; that what I teach to them is more than simply a marketable commodity that they learn when they are not doing another martial art on off nights. It goes much deeper. Out of respect to our instructors and the role in their lives that we play, our students always ask permission to learn another art.

If a student asks you for permission to train in another system and you tell the student no, but the student trains in the other system anyway, what do you do and why?