So much wasted talent

[Hidden_Ronin]

How would you go about helping someone break away from a certified McDojo (I won't name the style, I’m sure GKR gets enough of a bashing )? I recently met a person a few years younger than me through a friend. We agreed to do some light kumite as we all figured it would be good to branch out and fight different styles.

We met down the park, warmed up, stretched and then padded up. I explained that we would not be "point-fighting" as I for one am not a massive fan of the whole point-stop-start format. He said he was fine with that as long as punches were pulled and their was no elbow or knee strikes. This was fine, so we faced off and bowed.

During the "fight" I noticed he had extremely good technique, his foot work was good and he could land blows on target all the time. However I also noticed he made some extremely dangerous and sloppy mistakes which he explained to me later had been told were "Street effective". For example he used excessive high kicks, went for the body when my head was not covered and his guard was.....none existant to be honest, it was like he was chambering both fists simultaneously. Had it been a real fight, or had I been an actual aggressor he would have been in serious trouble. After that we had a rest, took in water and discussed good/bad points in each others technique.

Now I want to point out that he is not bad at karate, it just seems that what he’s being taught isn't exactly pushing him to the limit. That is he could be a truly excellent Karate-ka, I’m sure, if he hadn't had these bad habits hammered into him. I in no way wish to make this person sound like they are bad at martial arts (who am I to judge anyway?) but some of the things he has been taught are ridiculous. The grab escapes and "ground-fighting" were what worried me. We were both worn out after third round of sparring, so decided to swap join-lock techniques, and he sounded eager to learn about some of the Gong-fu/Tai'ji Qaun I managed to pick up from a friend. I explained how I feel about such techniques: That they must be practiced with a partner who isn't trying to help you, that is a person who doesn’t let go of your wrist, lapel or neck just so you feel that the technique dose work. He said he was fine with that but wanted me to go first. I showed him some of the Gong-fu/Tai’jiQuan techniques first, and then some of the applications for Heian Nidan. I figured that techniques were pretty generic within karate when it came hold escapes and wrist locks. It was his go, and he asked me to hold on and not let go, or comply in any way with his techniques. However some of the things he had been taught were rather silly. They could have worked, but he had not practiced them at speed because they were "dangerous". That makes sense, theirs no point practicing with someone if your going to snap their bones into dust (which I had to point out was very difficult as bones have a tensile strength equal to steel. Correct me if I’m wrong on that one, always found that amazing ). The thing that bugged me was that he thought that doing them at a slow pace was just as safe and effective. For example, one of wrist escapes went as follows: I held onto both of his wrists firmly. He freed his right from my left by twisting his right out hand out, and counter-grabbing mine. That wasn't too bad I guess, Id been taught that one myself, however what he did next was rather silly. He let go of my left hand, and began karate chopping my forearm. He tried this about five times before just standing and looking at me. I then explained that I had a free left hand, which would be pounding against his temple by now had he tried this against some snot nosed little hoody. I gave him some suggestions of how to improve the escape and showed him an Aikido escape from the same position. (No idea where I learned that one, but some quick google-fu later reveal it was in fact Aikido). I tried not to make to many criticisms about his techniques (It was open season on GKR however, as I detest that style). He then asked if I knew any takedowns or ground fighting. I told him how my ground game was none existent, and that my arsenal of takedowns was rather limiteda lso. He offered to show me some and I jumped at the opportunity. But when I asked him what else he learnt I almost said something rude.

"What do you study aside from Karate? Judo? Ju-jutsu? Hapkido?"

"no" he replied "They teach us this stuff at GKR. that’s what makes our style better than most traditional styles like Shotokan. I think that’s why it costs more as well." I didn't want to verbally rip him a new one, as for all I knew his ground game might have been better than mine. It wasn't. He attempted a hip throw, without the hips. Now lets be honest that’s never going to go to plan is it. The second technique was a "grab their wrist and throw them over the shoulder" job. He grabs my wrist, spun so his back was facing me and then tried to pull me over his shoulder. After this we again sat down and discussed each others techniques. I explained about using the hips in a "hip" throw, and that id never seen the other type of throw before. He assured me the technique worked, as his sensei had said so. I though it best to leave it at that. We did another half hour or so of sparring before we called it a day.

Any who, what I want to know from you, oh wise forum members is: Was I wrong to show him that some of his techniques were in fact absolute tripe. I’m sure I didn't hurt his self esteem too much, and constantly told him he was a very capable martial artist, and that I meant no disrespect to him when I made jokes about GKR (and believe me, their were a few). He said it was fine, and thanked me for the compliments and extra techniques. Also, how can I convince him to drop GKR and take another style? Any style: Go-ju, Wado-ryu, Judo, gong-fu. Its got to be better than what they pedal at GKR. I was outraged to be honest. Not only do they teach poor karate for stupid prices thy also seem to have given into the popularity of MMA and are now teaching “ground fighting”! Isn't this dangerous, to teach techniques in an ineffective way and then assure the person that he safe against most attackers? Surely that’s like giving a soldier an empty rifle and assuring them its loaded. I really want to help him, even if he doesn’t join the Dojo were I train, because he could be such a good Karate-ka. Apparently if he joins another Dojo as well as GKR they will boot him out! Is that common practice? I though Martial arts were supposed to support each other, that they were about learning and understanding as much as fighting.

Sorry about the long post, but I wanted thoughts and opinions.

Kind regards

Mike

[Havoc88]

Nice story!

On topic, I think you should tell him the truth. Just like you said, it's like giving a soldier an empty rifle while assuring him it's loaded.

He is so convinced of his own technique, that he might do stupid things during a real fight. When he is an as good martial artist as you say he is, he will pick things up rather quick, so he'll do fine.

Just my two cents

Tom

[bushido_man96]

Maybe you should go take a look at the school that he attends. Watch a class, and then see if your conclusions are justified. If that is the case, then you may want to try to talk him into leaving, if you really feel that this is for the best.

It is good that you pointed out some technical problems that he is having, and I think the fact that you guys got together and bounced ideas off of each other is fantastic. This shows great spirit and commaraderie for the martial arts. If you want to ease him into it, schedule a few more of these little meetings and keep working together. He may see for himself eventually that coming your way is the thing to do.

[MisterRadley]

I agree with bushido_man96. Before you try to get him to quit his school, go watch a class. If you feel the same way after watching a class, then I would suggest that he leaves.

[Shotokan-kez]

I agree with bushido too. Could he maybe train at your dojo?

[shotochem]

Hi Ronin,

I've seen the same of a few karateka I've met. In each case they were some of the best students in their respective dojos. My theory on this is that when you don't train regularly with people who are much better than you it's tough to be as effective as you can be or to improve as much as you can.

just my thoughts....

[bushido_man96]

Hi Ronin,

I've seen the same of a few karateka I've met. In each case they were some of the best students in their respective dojos. My theory on this is that when you don't train regularly with people who are much better than you it's tough to be as effective as you can be or to improve as much as you can.

just my thoughts....

Very good point. It is hard to improve when you don't get that change of pace. That is why it is important to do other kinds of training for some people.

[Hidden_Ronin]

I agree with bushido too. Could he maybe train at your dojo?

I suggested that, but it seems he completly brainwashed into beliveing that what hes taught works. He seems to think that "You get what you pay for" and that the Dojo I study at is inferior because it charges less. GKR also seems very Xeno-phobic. Apprently his Dojo does not allow other styles to train with them, and people who attemp other styles are evicted from the club.

I plan to go along with him and say I have no martial arts exsperiance. That way I can at least see whats going on inside these fable GKR "dojos"

[bushido_man96]

I agree with bushido too. Could he maybe train at your dojo?

I suggested that, but it seems he completly brainwashed into beliveing that what hes taught works. He seems to think that "You get what you pay for" and that the Dojo I study at is inferior because it charges less. GKR also seems very Xeno-phobic. Apprently his Dojo does not allow other styles to train with them, and people who attemp other styles are evicted from the club.

I plan to go along with him and say I have no martial arts exsperiance. That way I can at least see whats going on inside these fable GKR "dojos"

Well, you could get into the dojo, and see what it is like for yourself. Then, if you demonstrate what you know, and if it ends up superior to what they are taught, you may get the point across that you want.

What does GKR stand for, anyway?

[Hidden_Ronin]

What does GKR stand for, anyway?

Go Kan Ryu