Kung Fu In Combat

[bushido_man96]

Those fight clips are pretty interesting to watch. The thing I don't like about san shou is that there is the throw, and then no follow up on the ground. It would seem like you should go to the ground and submit them then, but then it would be a different sport, I guess.

[alsey]

could be like judo where a successful throw scores and you don't have to follow it with anything. most of the follow ups to throws i know (from jujitsu) involve pretty brutal attacks to the head from a standing position, which would be inapropriate in competition. leaving it at the throw acknowledges that the thrower has gained a big advantage without making him ground fight.

[elbows_and_knees]

Those fight clips are pretty interesting to watch. The thing I don't like about san shou is that there is the throw, and then no follow up on the ground. It would seem like you should go to the ground and submit them then, but then it would be a different sport, I guess.

to go to the ground and submit them implies that they are not finished. Like I said before, with shuai chiao, the goal is to throw them hard onto their head. with judo, onto their back. Have you ever watched a person who doesn't know how to fall land flat on their back? what normall happens? their head impacts the ground. Naturally, this doesn't end all fights, but it can give you enough time to run away, which is really all that is needed, unless you are fighting multiple attackers.

With judo, there is no follow up either, if the person lands squarely on his back.

[bushido_man96]

Those fight clips are pretty interesting to watch. The thing I don't like about san shou is that there is the throw, and then no follow up on the ground. It would seem like you should go to the ground and submit them then, but then it would be a different sport, I guess.

to go to the ground and submit them implies that they are not finished. Like I said before, with shuai chiao, the goal is to throw them hard onto their head. with judo, onto their back. Have you ever watched a person who doesn't know how to fall land flat on their back? what normall happens? their head impacts the ground. Naturally, this doesn't end all fights, but it can give you enough time to run away, which is really all that is needed, unless you are fighting multiple attackers.

With judo, there is no follow up either, if the person lands squarely on his back.

I see. That make sense. Cool.

[jeff5]

CMA can be used quite effectively. Its all in how you train it. If you do nothing but forms and have never applied them or sparred against a resisting opponent you will not be ready for a sparring match or combat. As with anything else, all techniques must be tested and practiced against someone who is fighting back. (within safety boundaries of course)

With regards to throws, I totally agree. My goal is to get the other person to the ground, hard. Then I can either restrain them until the police come, or incapacitate them to varying degrees if I have to. If I go to the ground, my goal is not to submit, its to get position and get up and off. To learn this though, I've been studying BJJ and Grappling. Will it ever be my main style? No. But to defend it, I want to understand it. (great art anyway)

[TriangleMan]

I don't disagree with that. but in my days training cma, I have personally seen grappling as the most effective way to learn how to defend against grappling.

They say that the people who are the best at defending the takedowns are the ones who know how to do the takedowns/grapple.

This is 100% true, no doubt about it- thats one of the reasons that WC's "anti grappling" gets slammed so much. There are too many people out there trying to teach what they do not know. I suppose that if they admit they dont have answers for everything, they feel their style is inferior. Your ability to stay on your feet in a fight is dependant upon your grappling skill- not you striking skill. Elbows and Knees did a good job of pointing out what a takedown involves, which is off balancing an opponent. If you want to learn how to avoid takedowns and stay on your feet in a fight, train with someone who's going to teach you properly- you'll find that it works 100% better (and by working takedowns you'll now have that option in a fight)

[PlasmaShock]

i think its the martial artist and how they train. not the style.

[TriangleMan]

i think its the martial artist and how they train. not the style.

You have to look at things objectively when you're trying to analyze a situation if you want to make the best decision. It is very possible that you're statement may be true, however massive amounts of evidence dictate otherwise. If it were true, then various types of people from all different martial arts backgrounds would have won NHB competitions- this is not what happened- you saw particular martial artists win time and time again. Royce Gracie was no where near as athletic as his opponents where when he fought, yet he managed to beat them all because the strength of his style happened to be the weakness of all the other styles.

Wing Chun is not going to teach you how to grapple on the ground, wrestling, judo, and jiu jitsu are not going to teach you how to stand on your feet and throw hands with someone, and Muay Thai isnt going to teach you how to take someone down. This is exactly what it means to be of a particular fighting style.

[elbows_and_knees]

i think its the martial artist and how they train. not the style.

When you think about it, the style dictates how you train. Sure, you can say "If you train like this on your own..." but let's be real - most people go about their normal lives after they leave the school. They WON'T do the extra training. In a typical sport fighting class, the very nature of the training will get you in competition shape (or close to it) for that event. It's part of the style. With the exception of capoeira, I don't see many traditional schools that do this. Consequently, yes the style does make a difference.

[TigerCrane]

I agree... the style does make a very big difference. The style, combined with the martial artist's experience and deep understanding of the art, makes a tremendous difference in real combat.