Shotokan close quarter combat

[shotokanwarrior]

Many times I have heard people talking about shotokan and the range of combat. For some reason it is believed that shotokan is a long to middle range art. I do agree that it is effective in these ranges but the close quarter range is overseen. If time is taken to look into Kata there are elbows, knees, headbuts etc. I just wonder why no one sees this or why it is not drilled into basics like the punches and kicks. Its all in the Kata.

[Shotokan-kez]

Unfortunatly yes it does seem to be focused mainly in kata, my sensei always says 'shotokan...think big'. It should be seen more in basics.

Kez x

[Killer Miller]

There are three sides to this perception by others.

1. Most view basic levels of the art as "being the art." Basic levels practice the basic concepts of the art. There's is a lot to learn prior to learning advanced concepts - and there are many advanced concepts to learn past basics (mean black belt and beyond).

2. There is a magic bubble (so-to-speak) you develop in higher levels that is taught. You maintain a general distance that is outside the attacking range so that you can see what they are going to do and have time to appropriately react to it. This is one of the reasons that Shotokan is "perceived" as being linear. However, once moving inside this magic bubble, you ATTACK with all your knowledge.

3. Past basics and at higher levels, many close quarter techniques are learned. Don't be fooled by us in this arena.

[Jiffy]

Killer Miller basically summed it up.

There is something else to consider. Any style is a reflection of the person who created it. At the time of shotokan creation, promotion of the Martial Art was a big priority. In order to do this, Funakoshi reserved some of the more deadly techniques for later in the study of the art so that he could get his (primarily junior) students to start training and doing excersize quickly while still being safe.This does not mean they are not in the system, just that they are not taught till later, and usually, the people who critisize an art (any art) have very little knowledge of it.

There is also another thing to consider. It has been proven that under stress, the mind is not able to complete instructions for fine motor movements, but it is able to process the messages for larger movements. Therefore, it would be fare to say that without long terms of training, the novice would better be able to protect himself with basic large movements than with small fidly ones. Then, when the student becomes more advanced, he is able to train the mind better to enable him to use the finer movements under stress and is therefore taught the applicable techniques.

Not the only reasons, but food for thought.

[bushido_man96]

I think somebody had a post about the groundfighing in shotokan. If this is the case, it makes it a very well rounded art.

[Killer Miller]

Shotokan-kez, There's a few ground surprises (not our focus though), but first you would have to get us on the ground - not as easy as it sounds.

Also, I'm sure, again, that lower levels would be the Shotokan practioners that would not do well in that arena.

Example:

I took Aikido with a close friend - he is a Sandan and is a very good Aikido veteran (good Aikido example). If my Karate guard is down the slightest, he could put me down in a flash...! However, the Nidan's and below (not a good Aikido example) could not budge me to save their lives... They did not know my training background in karate and would even try to bully me just a tad. I knew every body movement they were going to make, even if I knew nothing about Aikido, way, way before they moved. An Aikido-ka comming at a veteran karate-ka with an Oitsuki??! Please... I had them on the ground before they had a clue what hit them. Of course, after a while of torture, they would ask me "do you train another art?" I'd say to them "Um, Kinda..."

Also, you would not see advanced, experienced Shotokan practioners in the combat or tourney arena you are referring to. We are just not going to bother with it. However, you do see an occasional lower Shotokan Karate-ka participate and many times gets their tail wipped and gives the art a bad name... They hear about it plenty when they return.

- Killer -

[cross]

If time is taken to look into Kata there are elbows, knees, headbuts etc. I just wonder why no one sees this or why it is not drilled into basics like the punches and kicks. Its all in the Kata.

I think its a matter of experience. (keep in mind the style I train is not strictly shotokan, but is based almost exclusively around it.) In our school at least, knees, elbows, hook punches, etc. are part of our kihon. Everyone must do them. That doesnt mean everyone can use them in sparring or self defence right away. When most people first start they find it hard to do the basic punches in a live situation let alone trying to grab or do elbows and knees etc.

This is where experience comes in, to be able to do these techniques (in karates way of training) you need the experience of constant training. After a certain time you will find you have more control over yourself,(which allows you to 'hang' just outside fighting range... or the "bubble" that killer miller is refering to.) Then when you enter fighting range, everything happens very quickly and the control and experience you have allows you to utilise all your tools and also control your opponent, rather than finding yourself on equal terms with them.

[cathal]

We train close quarters as well. Elbow strikes, knees, and headbutts.

[bushido_man96]

The more I hear about Shotokan karate, the more I think I would like to try it. You all are great ambassadors to your art.

[Yasutsune Makoto]

Just a quick point...

Every chamber is an elbow or knee...we train it, we just aren't told we are.

Good points everyone, I agree with you all.