Outside the Ring

[Semper Jab]

As far as a lot of people are concerned, full contact fighting is the grain of effective fighting, of martial artists knowing what the heck they're doing. But the MMA/Knockdown/Full Contact tournaments are classified by weight rankings, making a clear statement that fighting a skilled heavier opponent a mistake.

What, then, is the street value of the dominant ring styles, if you were to defend yourself against a bigger offender? What martial art is it, in your opinion, that actually fits in the self defense realm?

Is it that you would just use different tactics because there are no longer any rules when you fight outside the ring? Or do these arts lack something?

[Mr. Mike]

well, for one thing you have rules in the ring. You can't just smash a knee, or gouge the eyes while hammer fisting the groin...in essence, what the schoolkids like to call dirty fighting. Remeber, most of teh MMA events have rules like no kicking from the ground while you're on your back, no elbos to the back, no strikes to the back of the head, be careful of the joints, no fishhooking, no gouging, etc. All these things help to ensure victory, but ren't exactly like sportsmanchip.

[yamesu]

What, then, is the street value of the dominant ring styles, if you were to defend yourself against a bigger offender? What martial art is it, in your opinion, that actually fits in the self defense realm?

Anyone who only trains to succeed "in the ring" and nothing else would definantly be lacking in many self-defence aspects IMO.

This is only my opinion, but tournaments, (legal ones anyway,) must have rules in place - This not only protects the fighters from injuries like blindness and spinal damage, but it also severely limits the amount of techniques one can execute, and hence effectively takes away from the pure reality of violence.

Having weight divisions certainly limits availability of opponents.

Kyokushin, as well as some other full-contact org's have open-weight divisions. You may want to check this out.

Is it that you would just use different tactics because there are no longer any rules when you fight outside the ring? Or do these arts lack something?

When there is rules in place, there is less options. I think a strike to the eyes is quite devestating, but where can you find a partner to train using this on effectively before they go blind......

In this respect, are all MA 'lacking' something?

NB; My post is entirely opinionated, and not in any way meant to offend anyone. Please dont go poking people in the eyes either.

[glockmeister]

This all depends. Would a boxer use different tactics? well in some cases, he may not need to. I have seen boxer's totally pulvarize opponents in the street is second just using the same thing they use in the gym.

[MartialArthur]

Fortunately, your attacker is not likely to have practiced eye gouging, fish-hooking, and joint breaking on a real person either.

You must practice devestating techniques, and hope that you never have to find out if they really work. Hopefully the street thug who jumps you doesn't have MA training so your own training will give you an edge.

[JWLuiza]

Assuming similar ethics, body size, and skill any match is a toss up. Body size and athleticism always helps.

In terms of a bigger opponent the following conditions will help: bodily harm to weak areas (throat, etc) and ability to not play the other persons game. There is no one martial art (how many times do we have to hear this?) that will prepare you for every opponent, but a MMA who is well rounded would be able to deal with many situations.

[ovine king]

one thing i just want to add.

even though ring fights have rules, it doesn't in anyway diminish the effectiveness of those ring fighters if they ever needed to defend themselves in a street fight.

the greatest benefit that ALL ring fighters have against those who practice a style that does not participate thus, is that the ring fight has much more experience in heavy contact sparring/practice.

it can almost be argued that this is in one way more important than the type of techniques you are allowed to use/practice.

[SubGrappler]

one thing i just want to add.

even though ring fights have rules, it doesn't in anyway diminish the effectiveness of those ring fighters if they ever needed to defend themselves in a street fight.

the greatest benefit that ALL ring fighters have against those who practice a style that does not participate thus, is that the ring fight has much more experience in heavy contact sparring/practice.

it can almost be argued that this is in one way more important than the type of techniques you are allowed to use/practice.

Excellent post, I agree 100%. Personally, I think the whole reason people try to debunk the idea that you have to fight in the ring to be a good martial artist is because they themselves are afraid to step up to the plate and try it themselves. You do NOT have to compete or fight MMA to be a good martial artist, but the best ones happen to be those who do compete. So many others want to be on the same skill level as those fighters, but do not want to put in the time and effort, nor do they want to take the risks of stepping into the ring and putting it on the line, so they try to bring those fighters down to their level by lessening their achievements and using things like rules as excuses as to why they cant fight.

[Charlie]

I think this was touched on in previous posts but I wanted to clarify...I believe most MA tournaments use weight divisions because you're competing against other, trained martial artists. This means that technique and skill-wise, everyone is much more on a level playing field than people you encounter "on the street." Therefore, in a tournament situation, size and weight do matter, especially in full-contact or knockdown style events.

I just competed in the "lightweight" division in a knockdown-style karate tournament this past weekend and I've got some mild injuries to recover from. After watching the heavier weight divisions, I'm fairly sure that I would be more seriously injured if I had competed against them.

And I do agree that competing in a full-contact or knockdown style event is of great benefit to a martial artist, no matter what the style. You learn how to use your techniques against someone (usually a stranger) who is resisting you fully, because they want to beat you. It's most likely against someone you don't train with so you're not used to their way of fighting. You have to deal with the adrenalin rush, the psychological pressure, and often injury if you have to fight a second or third match without having time to recover fully from your first match. Your body and mind gains experience from being kicked, punched, thrown, and/or contorted by someone who is doing it as hard as they can. You risk injury and disfigurement, even though it's not a great risk, it is there and therefore strengthens your mind and will. I respect people's opinion who say that a true martial artist doesn't seek to actually get in a fight with someone, controlled tournament or not. But, I wouldn't agree with someone who says that there isn't any benefit to competing.

[TheAnimal]

one thing i just want to add.

even though ring fights have rules, it doesn't in anyway diminish the effectiveness of those ring fighters if they ever needed to defend themselves in a street fight.

the greatest benefit that ALL ring fighters have against those who practice a style that does not participate thus, is that the ring fight has much more experience in heavy contact sparring/practice.

it can almost be argued that this is in one way more important than the type of techniques you are allowed to use/practice.

Ill second that.