Traditional vs "open" forms

[karatekid1975]

This idea came from John.

.... My school runs an open tournament every April where you can do any type of form you want and about 90% of the time it is someone doing a traditional form who takes Grand Champion in BB forms. Our most recent GC is the type of guy who will quiet 1000 people in a gym because his kata are so crisp and intense. No screaming, no flips, just solid karate presented well ....

This thread is to give your imput on what you think is better, and why (no flaming please).

For me, the open forms are fun to watch. But the screaming like a dead cat has to go. I perfer a quick strong kihap where it's supposed to go. I also believe that if you don't have strong basics, your "open" form will look sloppy, even with the tricks. Watch the ISKA competition. You'll see what I mean. When they do show the traditional forms vs creative ones, 8 times outta 10, the traditional ones win.

I'm not flaming creative forms. I actually like the tricks and stuff (I try to do them). But I perfer the traditional forms for comp myself.

Opinions?

[AndrewGreen]

I'd vote open without the screaming. Course I've never done open forms and stopped doing traditional ones...

My reason, I like they creative and athletic aspects of training. Of course the screaming tends to ruin it... Wushu stuff is pretty nice though, fancy with flow, and no screaming

[karatekid1975]

I do agree that a well done form, creative or traditional (without screaming) is nice to watch

I have never done creative forms, but I was just watching the ISKA comp on TV (re-run LOL). With all these creative forms popping up and winning comps, I noticed that (in this show anyways) the traditional forms beat the creative forms. And John's post just highlighted that.

I was thinking of doing a creative form, but I'm getting too old for the jumps and spins (previous injuries). I was wondering if I still have a chance with traditional forms?

[AndrewGreen]

All depends on the judges. Forms competition is incredibly biased in the judging, if the judges are from traditional schools, the traditional forms will score higher. If they are from sport karate schools, the flashy ones will.

[karatekid1975]

Thanks for the imput, Andrew

[DragonMike]

I really prefer the traditional forms. I respect the athletic ability of open competitors, but I enjoy the technique in traditional forms better. I just think there is something special about doing the same forms that have been practiced for years.

[JWLuiza]

Wow! I inspired a thread! Who hoo!

Anyway: Do you stand a chance with an open form? Of course! But remember as one of your elder colleagues said (in paraphrase) "It IS about the performance" not your understanding of the form. However, your understanding can bring about performance.

Key things I think about (as a black belt I've only placed first a few times and 2nd/3rd a few others, so take my advice with a grain of salt) are syncopation and delayed hands. In TSD/Shotokan style forms the quicker and snappier your hand techniques, the better, so I wait till my transition to my stance is 85% complete or so and then launch my strikes blocks, etc. as fast as possible so the 100% of the hand technique finishes at the same time as the last 15% of my stance. I also noticed it helped generate hip power.

Syncopation for me was done by thinking of my forms from a judo/jujitsu perspective. For example, Pinan 4 the Backfist side kick combination is a modified hip throw , so figuring what is leading up to that combo and if certain moves are part of that set or not lead me to changing the timing of certain moves.

IMHO, I think japanese/okinawan kata lend themselves more to this deeper translation than do korean forms.

[karatekid1975]

Thanks John. And your welcome

[JWLuiza]

Laurie,

You and your bf should come down in April to the DC area and check our tournament out. Get your form-geek on.

I'll teach you a TSD or Shotkan form if you want as well if you'll teach me a korean one (Right now the only korean form I know is Kae-bek..)

The funny thing is I can get the gerneral pattern of shotokan derived forms in a day and have it memorized... Korean? Forget about it!

[karatekid1975]

Coolness. I know some TSD forms (started in TSD), but I never got the chance to learn Bassai (or the last two Pyung forms ). That would be so cool to learn that one (or both depending if your dojang does both sho and Dai)

I only know the 8 Taegueks, so it would have to be one of those for you to choose from LOL.