Christians & the rank of Master

[IcemanSK]

I'm really curious to know if refering to someone as master, other than Christ, bothers anyone with a faith background. I also would love to hear from high ranking black belts if it would bother them if a student came to them & said, "I prefer to not call you Master_____. But Mr/Ms instead."

I'm quite serious about this. I appreciate your input.

[orion82698]

Seldom do I discuss religous threads in forums, or even in person. Religion is viewed (in my eyes) the same as politics. I don't discuss my political beliefs, nor do I discuss my religous beliefs. It's not a matter of me denying christ, more so that I don't need to hear the backlash and other people opinion on my religion. I have been going to church for as long as I can remember. I probably pray 3-5 times a day. I'm not saying I'm the perfect christian, but I believe, and have faith in God, and that's all that matters.

Now, when it comes to MA, when I bow, my head is cleared. I seperate myself from my life. I'm almost in another world. I don't think about anything, but training. However, when I call my Sensei, or Master... I look at him/her as a high ranked offical in a art, nothing more. It's important to keep it as that.

[lgm]

I'm really curious to know if refering to someone as master, other than Christ, bothers anyone with a faith background. I also would love to hear from high ranking black belts if it would bother them if a student came to them & said, "I prefer to not call you Master_____. But Mr/Ms instead."

Personally, if I have to address a martial arts teacher as "master", it simply would translates to me as "Sir" or "Teacher" or equivalent to "sensei", nothing more to it. I don't deify him or idolize him as a god. Being a Christian, when I address Christ as Master, it translates as "my Lord" or "my God". There's a big difference in the meanings attached because the term "master" is not univocal at all, but has several meanings depending on the context it is used.

In truth, however, the address I use with all martial arts teacher that deserve my respect is "Sensei". In my organization, I call only one person that and he is our chief instructor. I have not called anyone "master" at all. If I do, it probably would only be Gichin Funakoshi, the acknowledged father of modern karate, as I view him as sensei of senseis. To every other karate great who came after him, I have always referred to them as "______sensei". Anyway, that's my own way. Others have their own idiosyncrasies as well.

[angus88]

Calling someone "Master" is a very old custom, even outside the context of religion or the martial arts. In many Western cultures, the man of the house is still considered the "Master of the House."

There's nothing anti-religious about that any more than calling someone a Master in martial arts. It's a title of respect, nothing more. Same with "Lord of the Manor", etc.

[SenseiKeith]

When I think of Master in the terms of martial arts I dont think of it as me looking up to a higher power of sorts. I look at it as a respect thing look for example at people who go to school and get their doctorates we call them Doctor. Or a judge Your honor again it ties to respect not so much religion.

One day when I am lucky enough to reach that status I do not think I will force people to call me master. When I hear the term master in the martial arts I do not think of anyone who has truly mastered the arts. To master something is to mean it is perfected and as long as we are all human we are bound to make mistakes. And we can always improve on what we are doing. So to me master is a title that is a respectful one, one who has great knowledge and can use that knowledge.

I do agree too many people are belt hungry. Its funny the founder of Judo created the colored belt system ( the colored belts in between white and black) with the different degrees of black belt. Today most people care about that then their training.

In the end the only time a belt matters is when you have someone attacking you that cares about your belt. "Oh wait your a black belt I had better not mess with you huh?" and mean it. I dont see that happening if anything it will fuel them with desire in kicking your rear.

Well there goes me on my rant, what do you guys / gals think?

Respectfully Yours,

Keith

[MartialArthur]

I have heard people say that they cannot be in a martial art because they "cannot serve two masters" as it says in the Bible. This is a silly argument, because few MA practitioners actually "serve their master". If anything the master serves them by providing instruction.

I often wonder if these same people will not allow a master mechanic to work on their car or avoid calling a master electrician to wire a new light fixture in favor of an apprentice or journeyman.

*

[kchenault]

Talk about splitting hairs!

[TangSooGuy]

To me..."master" is the title granted to me by my association. It is basically short for "master instructor", and not that I feel like I am anyone's master, but I do think i've become a pretty decent teacher over the last 20 years...

I'm not going to rant for long on qualifications for this title, but it's on par with the amount of effort one takes to get a doctorate in college...my mother actually said my master's thesis for Tang Soo Do was longer an more in depth than her doctoral dissertation...

So to me, the title of master bears no more religious implications that that of "doctor", or even a military rank like "Colonel".

That said, I will never ask a student to call me simply "Master." It is a title that is ALWAYS used in conjunction with my last name, and I would correct any student that did otherwise, because being called simply "Master" would lend more weight to the title than it has in my eyes.

If they want to call me something without addressing me by same, "Sir" usually suffuces, and if not, Sah Bum (Nim) would be appropriate...

Christians outside the USA have been calling people Lord, and "my Lord" for centuries...and that seems to have much morereligious significance than the title of "master"...

In my mind, addressing someone in my association by the title of master has no religious significance whatsoever.

[Meguro]

There are master sargeants, master chefs, headmasters, etc. Do you have problems with them to? Relax, it's just a title that only has significance inside your martial arts school. The real problems in life arise when you address others as Daddy or dearest, when they are not in fact your father, spouse or bf/gf.

[IcemanSK]

To me..."master" is the title granted to me by my association. It is basically short for "master instructor", and not that I feel like I am anyone's master, but I do think i've become a pretty decent teacher over the last 20 years...

I'm not going to rant for long on qualifications for this title, but it's on par with the amount of effort one takes to get a doctorate in college...my mother actually said my master's thesis for Tang Soo Do was longer an more in depth than her doctoral dissertation...

So to me, the title of master bears no more religious implications that that of "doctor", or even a military rank like "Colonel".

That said, I will never ask a student to call me simply "Master." It is a title that is ALWAYS used in conjunction with my last name, and I would correct any student that did otherwise, because being called simply "Master" would lend more weight to the title than it has in my eyes.

If they want to call me something without addressing me by same, "Sir" usually suffuces, and if not, Sah Bum (Nim) would be appropriate...

Christians outside the USA have been calling people Lord, and "my Lord" for centuries...and that seems to have much morereligious significance than the title of "master"...

In my mind, addressing someone in my association by the title of master has no religious significance whatsoever.

Thanks for your input. I've run into some folks that made that title a very "special" thing for themselves. Most have dead end jobs, but they're someone special when they enter the dojo & "lord" it over their students. My experience w/ them (rather you normal folks) prompted my question.

Thanks again.