no gi'ing it in a gi class

[makosub-wrestling]

I have be reading eddie bravo's book and love how he is speaking out about the use of the gi. BJJ was promoted as a fightting art unlike the old styles but now that mma has evolved beyond them they seem to be suffering from "we must hang on to tradition". Why else would you keep it? You ever try a collar choke on someone wearing a T-shirt? Now don't get me wrong I love the sport of gi style BJJ but that is all it is good for and should not be the focus of the school( just my veiw). Plus I am lucky to train at a school that offers both gi an no gi equally along with a MMA class and Thai class. Which is why we have the quality of fighters training their I guess. One of our guys just fought in the last UFC another is on the Ultimate Fighter 2 and my instructer is going to fight in Pride very soon. Our school is very sucessful and I think it because of its willingness to go beyond the gi. Does anyone differ and Why. thank you.

[Menjo]

I dont think non-gi and gi situations should be looked at as aposing or competing. Tradition i think is supposed to let be able to adapt to your situation, i dont think it should be an argument just do what you want to.

[Willannem]

Many people confuse traditional training with ineffective training. The techniques you learn in jujutsu systems are simply building blocks for techniques and principles to follow. Looking at individual techniques and dismissing them because of not being ‘street applicable’ has a lot to do with short sightedness.

You probably won't be able to collar choke someone with a t-shirt on, in the streets. You can't rely on a ref to enforce rules on the street, either.

Tradition serves its purpose. As my friend used to say, "There's nothing new under the sun."

[Menjo]

Many people confuse traditional training with ineffective training. The techniques you learn in jujutsu systems are simply building blocks for techniques and principles to follow. Looking at individual techniques and dismissing them because of not being ‘street applicable’ has a lot to do with short sightedness.

You probably won't be able to collar choke someone with a t-shirt on, in the streets. You can't rely on a ref to enforce rules on the street, either.

Tradition serves its purpose. As my friend used to say, "There's nothing new under the sun."

I gotta say, thats a cool saying .

[makosub-wrestling]

I am just dealing with BJJ so no other tridition applies. If you read "The Gracie Way" Helio developed his style based on what would work in a real fight and tested it out in no holds bared fights. At the time their style was so effective that the gi was seen as a help not a hurt. Royce said he wore it in ufc because guys would tend to grab it instead of hitting him. But now many fighters train in ground fighting so a gi is less effective then in the early days. And if you have seen Royce fight he is not in a full gi anymore. And I am a wrestler not an artist so it is true i am not looking for a greater understanding of the univers just a better way to choke a guy out. I spent ten years in zazen practice and learned to hear the sound of one hand clapping but when i came down from my mountain a punch in the mouth still hurt, but now i can find joy in the action.

[Menjo]

cool ending to your post

[SubGrappler]

Our school is very sucessful and I think it because of its willingness to go beyond the gi. Does anyone differ and Why. thank you.

I believe your school is successfull because of the people who are involved in the organization. Carlinos organized the World Championships and has many quality fighters based out of his gym (in my opinion due to how well organized he is and past/current success of his team).

At the time their style was so effective that the gi was seen as a help not a hurt. Royce said he wore it in ufc because guys would tend to grab it instead of hitting him. But now many fighters train in ground fighting so a gi is less effective then in the early days.

Agreed- In the old days, BJJ fighters would defeat wrestlers, catch wrestlers, and luta livre fighters and claim that it was the gi that gave them the ede in technique.

One thing Eddie noted, however, was that in watching the BJJ fighters in the early days, they had no combinations of attacks. When training with the gi, all their moves were reliant on the jacket, and their combos most often came from a collar choke setup/sweep option.

I personally think the reason that BJJ fighters could beat out the no gi fighters of old was because its much easier to train "lightly" when you wear a gi. No gi is often hard to roll light in without the proper training partner, due to the lack of grips you are unable to control a spastic opponent. This would mean that a BJJ fighter was probably able to train more often and gain more experience. Even with the gi on, grappling experience is grappling experience.

Personally, I feel that many people who insist that training with the gi makes one more technical (in no gi no less) are the ones who have either never trained no gi before or are unable to duplicate their success in no gi tournaments.

Eddie gave a great analogy in his book to put the whole no gi vs gi argument into perspective- imagine that there was no wrestling as we know it today, and all matches were conducted like Judo matches. Suddenly, someone comes along and just does strictly no gi Judo, which becomes wrestling. People are often quick to dismiss Judo's effectiveness in MMA, citing lack of grips as a key reason, but for some odd reason insist that a BJJ fighter who trains with a gi is going to be more technical in no gi than another fighter who's experienced in no gi grappling. This is as much a double standard as you can have.

[Thubs]

The Gi is great, I allways use it in any sorta' match, It gives me leverage and doesn't allow someone to slip away from me, I'd prefere the gi over any type of clotheing.

[TJS]

Lots of discussion on this topic recently

I still belive It's best to start with a Gi atleast until you get your basics down. You have to understand alot of Todays top grapplers still train with a Gi quite often..even the ones who win in ADCC.

[shogeri]

It's the people that make or break a school, not the system itself.