Kata Jiin?

[Skeptic 2004]

Chibana used to teach Jiin as an "option" kata in addition to his standard curriculum (Kihon, Naihanchi's, Pinan's, Patsai's, Kusanku's, Chinto). This doesn't make it a Shorin-Ryu kata, but it obviously can be done Shorin-Ryu style. From what I understand, there is (was?) more of a Tomari-te influence in Jiin.

My instructor hasn't had me do Jiin yet, but if the Shotokan version linked above is indictative of the basic Jiin movements, than the only similarity with Jion (an "option" kata I'm currently learning) would be the opening.

As an interesting sidenote, for those of you familar with the Shinken Taira lineage of Kobudo, the basic pattern for Maezato no Tekko is derived from the basic pattern of Jiin.

[Skeptic 2004]

I apologize for the double post, but something someone said just struck me like a brick falling off a house.

One time while I was researching bassai dai I easily found 26 different versions of that one kata alone.

There are actually three main patsai/bassai kata (the other 23 versions you may have found are most likely alterations of these three). There's the Tomari or Classical Patsai which I believe is the original version of the kata. There's Matsumura Patsai which is the version developed by Sokon "Bushi" Matsumura. Then there's Itosu Patsai, a version of Patsai that Itosu created after learning both the Tomari and Matsumura versions. In the Shorin styles and their derivatives, Patsai Sho is most likely Itosu Patsai; Patsai Dai is most likely Matsumura Patsai. If the Shotokan website videos referred to above are accurate, then in Shotokan this order is switched (i.e. Bassai Dai = Itosu Patsai, etc.). In the Hohan Soken lineage, Patsai Sho is the Tomari Patsai and Patsai Dai is Matsumura Patsai. With styles that have only one version of Patsai, it's more than likely Tomari Patsai (from the other derivative styles I've seen).

Not to throw us off topic from Jiin and all, but that statement sort of bugged me all day today.

[y2_sub]

There are an amazing number of katas. One time while I was researching bassai dai I easily found 26 different versions of that one kata alone.

Depends on the style(ryu) , the faction , the instructor , etc .... take for example kyokushin katas , they differ from one organization to another , for instance , passai kata in iko1 is different than passai kata in iko3 ........

[patusai]

I heard once that Jiin and Jutte from Shotokan (and Jiin from Shito ryu and other styles) may have been earlier versions of the Join kata. I also heard that Jiin and Jutte were once one larger kata and broken down into two. I have been taught Jiin and I have no Shotokan background. I learned it from Shorin ryu...but that was a long time ago. Someday I may do some research on this one

[NidaninNJ]

I heard recently that Jiin is no longer an official JKA kata, whatever that means. I know that a lot of people in the JKA didn't know it. But I don't know why it was taken off the 'official' list. I recall Rob Redmond saying something about lack of originality in that kata or something like that. There is nothing in that kata that isn't already in other kata so why bother. Not sure if I'm getting his words across straight or not but I think that is about what he was saying. Anyway, I think Jiin isn't in the JKA list anymore. FWIW I know it but I know a lot of other people don't.

[johnnymac]

Ji'in isnt to difficult of a kata. The beginning is the same as Jion, except the hands are exactly reversed. So the leg that is out is the one with the gedan barai, unlike Jion where the leg that is out is the side with the uchi uke.

It's not to bad, the Shito Ryu version has and extra rising block and oi tsuki on both sides at the end.

There is a copy of this kata on video at the k a t a site in my name block; if you want to see this kata.

John

[jion]

Jiin is similiar to the other "J" katas, Jion and Jitte. I've heard elsewhere that someone suggested it could have be one larger kata (like the Tekki or Gojushiho, actually Gojushiho Sho and Dai 'are' one and the same kata).

I prefer Jiin to Jitte somewhat (maybe it's because Jitte's staff defense that is commonly taught is about as much bogus bunkai as I can handle). And I think it is one kata that puts some emphasis one the left hand side. The beginning is similiar to Jitte and Jion (Jion, with reversed hands), but you move the left foot to the right foot before moving backward in zenkutsu dachi. At the end of the kata, you also move the left foot from kiba dachi to right.

[patusai]

Jiin, I belive, is no longer part of JKA...I believe I read that elsewhere. I think the article was titled something like "Shotokan's Forgotten Kata." That is one reason that I practice the kata...although I was not taught the Shotokan version. I believe that Shito Ryu still use this kata...if I am not correct about this please correct me. It, along with Jutte can almost be considered a Jion Sho (or Dai depending on you line of thinking).

[JWLuiza]

Jiin is similiar to the other "J" katas, Jion and Jitte. I've heard elsewhere that someone suggested it could have be one larger kata (like the Tekki or Gojushiho, actually Gojushiho Sho and Dai 'are' one and the same kata).

I prefer Jiin to Jitte somewhat (maybe it's because Jitte's staff defense that is commonly taught is about as much bogus bunkai as I can handle). And I think it is one kata that puts some emphasis one the left hand side. The beginning is similiar to Jitte and Jion (Jion, with reversed hands), but you move the left foot to the right foot before moving backward in zenkutsu dachi. At the end of the kata, you also move the left foot from kiba dachi to right.

LOL. I second your motion on the kata bunkai for Jitte. I love the Gojushiho forms, and heard tell of a story that what is NOW Dai was once Sho and vice versa based on a high level competitors mistake during an All-Japan competition. They are so similary it makes sense to me