How does Tai chi chuan compare to Shaolin gung fu?

[italian_guy]

I think that Tai Chi Chuan is a good self-defence art but that it takes quite long (let's say 5-6 years depending on the individual and the teaching) to be self-defence proficent. However it has some other side effects, (i.e. health, relaxation, flexility improvements) and it is a very good cross-training art.

So my opinion is: if self-defence is your primary goal I think you should concentrate on other MA that teach you self-defence faster. If you are interested on an Internal type of martial art Tai Chi chuan is a very good option.

[elbows_and_knees]

Time is not a factor in my training. If it takes 20 years I am willing to learn. It is just how effective the art is that I am worried about. And I believe fighting is all about strength. How do you fight without strength?

when you have two guys with equal strength, who wins? The one who is superior in all other areas - skill, speed, will, etc. It's not all about strength, however it does play a part.

As far as time goes, look at it this way - if you can take longfist for example and become effective in two years, or taike taiji and become effective in 7, you will have more proficient experience in longfist than you would in taiji. However, considering the rarity of finding someone who can teach effective combat taiji, I'd avoid it, as I said.

[elbows_and_knees]

Taijiquan = Ultimate Fist

In the context of Chinese martial arts, this does not mean that it is talking just about the hand at the end of your arm.

Traditionally you refer to a style as a "fist"

The implication (rather arrogantly actually I guess) is that Taiji is the best.

You could roughly sum up three theories of blocking (and I mean roughly)

The first is to take the punch or kick (as you would lets say, in Muay Thai or Boxing) with the least effort to avoid getting thumped. (The amount of force taken by the defendant is high (as much as the attacker is spending)

The second is to apply force at an angle to the oncoming punch or kick (or whatever). (the amount of force taken by the defender is medium and half of the force the attacker is spending)

The third is to apply force in the direction of the attackers punch or kick, changing the angle slightly to avoid taking the punch or kick. (the amount of force taken by the defendant is low (about ten percent of what the attacker is spending)

Now these three principles are real basic generalisations but simply put I would place

Muay Thai and Boxing in the first

Karate, Taekwondo and majority of Chinese MA in the second

and Taijiquan in the third.

Simple put if someone punches you in taiji you pull his punch not block his punch. This does require you to move as well (else you'll pottentially pull them in to hit you) but I'm sure you get the gist.

Now thats not to say that thats the only thing you do if someone punches, just an example of a generic response that highlights the difference. Let the attacker do all the hard work!

Its one of the reasons why Taijiquan has links with Taoism and the theories of Ying and Yang. Unfortunately there are an excessive amount of people just teaching Taiji for health reasons because they do not know the martial aspect of Taiji.

I'm lucky that my teacher teaches the traditional yang style two man form amongst others and knows the applications and can use them.

Oh and monkeygirl is right.. her general principles hold true amongst all martial arts.

people who don't have alot of experience with thai boxing and other styles always seem to say something similar to this. Thai boxing uses several principles that taiji does, including borrowing, absorbing and redirection.

Also, it's not called grand ultimate because of it's repetition as a good fighting style. It's name is because it is based on the concepts of yin and yang - it is all encompassing - hence, grand ultimate.

[Kajukenbopr]

Tai chi has the best conditioning for the body- I bet you cant take one class without breaking a sweat or trembling.

Its different point of views but Tai chi is very effective when mastered. Also, it can make u be healthier

[elbows_and_knees]

ANY MA training can make you healthier. That's just a benefit of exercise. I know what you are getting at though, and you are correct. However, I would disagree with the assertion that taiji will give you the best workout.

[Anbu Alex]

but tai chi and taiji gives one of the best internal exercises

[elbows_and_knees]

tai chi and taiji = same thing... they are just different romanizations.

I dunno if you can really make that statement though. taiji is better than bagua? better than xingyi? better than baji? better than piqua? Different people are going to train in different arts for different things - I personally would prefer xingyi over taiji, unless it was chang style taiji.

[Kajukenbopr]

they are all different types of excercise, they are all pretty effective, but every style of tai chi is effective for self defense once mastered.

you train moving slow to gqain control of your whole body and increase chi. Then quick movements can be developed

[elbows_and_knees]

they are all different types of excercise, they are all pretty effective, but every style of tai chi is effective for self defense once mastered.

you train moving slow to gqain control of your whole body and increase chi. Then quick movements can be developed

that's just it - the once mastered part... that always brings us back to "how long does it take to become a great fighter with taiji. chang style was created by shuai chiao grandmaster chang tung sheng, so I know they do a lot of live drilling and throwing work.

[taiji fajin]

If you train correctly, about 3 years. If it's taking you longer than that, you aren't training effeciently. My laoshi has pointed out this simple fact: Taiji was made as a martial art (ie, physical combat). Any martial art that takes 20 years to be useful would never have survived. I've seen people get very good in 3 years, and that's the (rough) estimate he gives as well. You should start to feel something in the first 5 months or so. If not, you could improve your training program (ie, what percent of your training is spent on what part of taiji).