The karate grand master.

[pmeckiff]

Correct me if i'm way out here, but it seems to me that pretty much anybody who i decent at karate can create a new "school" of Karate, and subsequently become it's Grand Master.

When i cam to Uni here, I joined the KArate club after a 3 year break (I trained for 5 years before that in 2 different dojos in France, under several, in my opinion, good karate senseis). Upon joining, i was quite miffed to hear that we have Sadashigo Kato Shihan (8th Dan IJKA and the chief european instructorfor the IJKA) living just up the road. Indeed he comes twice a year to do the grading, and all the senseis that teach us on a regular basis are taught by him. After allmy years in Karate, I have never seen such a high standard of teaching.

Anyway, back on topic. After reading the posts here onKF, and doing a bit of googleing, there seem to be so many different organisasions, and "Grand Masters". Shihan Kato is an 8th dan, but this figure is dwarfed by some of the other ranks i've seen in other associations.

My question is thus: Is there any one Shihan, in any organisation that is regarded as The Master of Karate, or do they all think that they are better than one another, and therefore give themselves higher grades?

(I know my English writing is poor,let me know if it makes no sense to anyone)...

[AnonymousOne]

McDojo's are experts in promoting themselves to "Grand Master".

What is a master, and how do you define exactly what are the requirements to be called a master?

Aragaki was considerd and called a master at the age of 28. Bruce Lee was considered a Master at age 33.

Who is qualified to be one and what are the rules of being one?

Many of the old time masters were considered to have that status after training solidly for 15 years. Miyagi is one example.

The whole grading system is a crock in my view. I get incensed that grades are given to people based on years between grades.

I totally believe it should be based solely on performance alone.

For example in our school it takes 4 years from 3rd Dan to 4th Dan.

However one may have the 4th Dan skills when they sat for their 3rd dan, but because they havent done the time, they can not sit the grade. Thats rediculous. Totally and utterly rediculous.

[NinTai]

I agree that there is a great misuse of the term "master" as well as other

oriental titles (I once saw on a website that the instructor when by the title

"sifu" but was american and taught a japanese based style ).

Anyway its interesting to note that an instructor I know was taugt by

Kotani Sensei one of judos 10th dans and a direct student of Kano Sensei.

The whole time he trined with him he just called him Sensei thats all.

[makiwaraman]

I thought that being a karateka meant that you should be humble, how can anyone claim to have mastered all that karate has to offer(thats my take on someone saying their a master), its a journey not a destination.

I feel that all grades should be tested on standard and not on time or how many classes you have done. I know this is tough for those with less natural ability but I have seen too many people get grades that they should not of passed just for having enough ticks in boxes.

regards makiwaraman

[Cobosan]

I think the rank GrandMaster isnt that much an issue of the school as it is of the organisation ( the style ) which you practise. In Ryukyu Kempo the rank Grand Master is given to 7.dan and higher and 10. dan is Headmaster ( which we currently dont even have - in DKI cause Dillman is 9.th dan ).

My sensei has just been promoted to 4th dan therefore in our organisation he is now a master at 29 or 30 ( dont know exactly ). I also think its not so much the age factor but the knowledge the ambition one shows towards sth. My sensei devoted his life to the study of this art and its no wonder after 9 years of training he has reached a masters level.

[ninjanurse]

I agree... it is all about humilty.

Along my journey I have met a few martial artitsts who hold the title of "Grand Master" in their respective systems and each one of them prefers not to be called by that title. "Just sensei will do".

[Grenadier]

Correct me if i'm way out here, but it seems to me that pretty much anybody who i decent at karate can create a new "school" of Karate, and subsequently become it's Grand Master.

That is certainly true, but the amount of credibility that goes with such a title will ultimately depend on what the newly crowned Grand Master has done in the past. In general, the more experience and earned recognition, the more the credibility.

For example, someone with a hachidan rank in a style of Karate that trained in a well-disciplined traditional dojo, that goes and starts his own martial arts style will be much more credible than, say, a Grand Master that only has a nidan from a McDojo. While it may not be apparent at first sight, the quality of instruction will be noticeably different after a class or two, and so forth. Amongst the martial arts community, it's only natural, that the more accomplished Grand Master is going to come out on top.

My question is thus: Is there any one Shihan, in any organisation that is regarded as The Master of Karate, or do they all think that they are better than one another, and therefore give themselves higher grades?

No. Different styles have different heads, and each of them has their own strengths and weaknesses, and they realize it, too. They're not going to bother comparing apples to oranges. While they might compare individual traits (O-shihan X has a better side kick than O-shihan Y, und so weiter), that's a different story entirely.

I doubt that the collective O-shihans and O-senseis will ever come to an agreement as to who the best (overall) is. Furthermore, as the O-sensei / O-shihan of their styles, they going to be too busy to worry about who's the best of the best, since their schedules are going to be packed, indeed.

(I know my English writing is poor,let me know if it makes no sense to anyone)...

Your English isn't a problem!

[Sauzin]

Well as my Sensei is fond of pointing out, the term "master" used to be coined for a boy who has not come of age who was to inherit title or land. He says he doesn't like anyone calling him a boy and as a result dislikes the term "master".

I think he understands that when used in the context of martial arts the term "master" is meant to denote mastery of a skill or art. And as a 9th dan he would be worthy of this and more. In fact he would be a grand master as he was awarded his own style by another grand master (Seikichi Odo) along with his rank. Still he doesn't like the term. I think he needs to feel that he is still progressing in his art. I also think he feels in some way that being called a master somehow takes away from the master he learned from. Above all however, I think there's a word he has found much more to his liking after the decades of working with the students that he has had. "Sensei" I doubt he will ever give up his preference for his title of "Sensei". And I think that says something. What greater honor is there, really, then being a teacher?

[Sauzin]

I think the rank GrandMaster isnt that much an issue of the school as it is of the organisation ( the style ) which you practise. In Ryukyu Kempo the rank Grand Master is given to 7.dan and higher and 10. dan is Headmaster ( which we currently dont even have - in DKI cause Dillman is 9.th dan ).

My sensei has just been promoted to 4th dan therefore in our organisation he is now a master at 29 or 30 ( dont know exactly ). I also think its not so much the age factor but the knowledge the ambition one shows towards sth. My sensei devoted his life to the study of this art and its no wonder after 9 years of training he has reached a masters level.

Um on a side note, about 4 or 5 years ago I saw a certain certificate being signed by some black belt friends of mine that certified George Dillman as a 10th degree. At the time I saw it, it had about 20 signatures on it. One of which was Wally Jay's. I think Dillman accepted the rank or at least that was the last I heard.

[GrrrArg]

Id term a master of karate as anyone with alot of knowledge (grade is kinda irrelvant due to the prevalance of 12th McKarateMasters) and not being to bothered about what everyone else is calling themselves.

The best guy I ever trained under coulda given himself any number of titles and he coulda claimed a higher grade if he wanted it (hes 7th dan) but he prefers to let his skills to do the talking.