The value of point sparing

[Dark Shogun]

I've been thinking about point sparing recently. The kind where when one fighter hits the other the match is stoped, point is awarded and the match then continues.

One thing this kind of kumite teaches that continuous kumite does not is to not get hit. The goal is to be the first to strike, not to strike the hardest. On the street, being the first to hit is very important because if you make the first hit your opponent is stunned and you become more likely to make the second hit, and so on. So geting in first is very important.

This thought came to me while watching a boxing match with my brother-in-law. In this match the boxers would move in together, one would hit once or twice and the other would take the blows adn hit back 3 or 4 times. In the end the boxer who hit more times won on points. Now even tho he won the match, this stratergy would get you beaten on the street. Who on the street would just take a hit from and attacker and then dish out bigger better hits?

I'm not sating that point sparing is better than other kinds of sparing, I'm sating that occasional point sparing may have it's value in that it teaches one to hit first.

What you all think?

[ps1]

You bring up a good point.

Attempting to correlate any sport to real life is difficult. Point fighting is good to teach different tactics. But if you use point fighting exclusively, it will hinder progress.

I've found a good approach is to use a ladder.

When a person is first learning to fight we teach set sequences of techniques.

Next they learn to point spar. The targets are limited to the torso and head. This teaches good distancing and control.

Then we add more allowable targets and require good combinations of techniques. Also during this period we put boxing gloves on them and allow "boxing style" matches. This teaches them to use more than one technique at a time and how to use good technique even after being hit fairly hard.

At the highest level, we allow a "NHB style" of sparring. While we do not condone attempting to knock out a training partner, it is very interesting to see what happens when full sweeps and take downs come into play.

If taught properly, it brings out a very strong karateka. What do you think?

[Dark Shogun]

We utalise a simlar style of randori which is basicly NHB given that we don't seriouly injure one another. This is started from a standing position or clinch and is somtimes done 2 on 1.

I haven't done any point sparing since my old tournament days.

[Oahngoji]

Yeah, I concur. Sometimes point sparring is helpful, since its main idea is to threaten and (kind of) scareyour opponent .

[AnonymousOne]

After having survived countless street fights over the years, in my opinion point sparring has no relationship to actual fighting.

As for hitting first, that doesnt always work on the street especially if you are being attacked by a drunk maniac or someone on PCP who cant feel the pain.

How people attack you on the street, unfortunately, is not organised and orderly like a kumite match or point contest.

Any fighting that has rules is limited. Train for a no rules situation 100%

[italian_guy]

I think point sparring is good to develop explosive kind of attack, learn defense to those attack (like the not-to-get-hit approach of the previous posters), and as a general footwork training, what does not teach you is how to take hit, the fact that there are no rules in a street confrontation, not much the clinching ability (transition to grappling), and some continous fighting that sometimes is needed. In conclusion it is good to develop some skill but is not sufficient if your target is to learn actual self defence.

[Sauzin]

Training to strike first means nothing if you don't train how to strike properly. Most point sparring I've seen does no face contact and light body contact. The most common mistake you see in point sparring is the tendency for people to slap or flail. Now good judging can counteract some of this, but it shows that point sparring trains to touch first not to strike first. There are many drills that you can use to train reaction time. But the exchange of non forceful and often mistargeted strikes and blocks has no correlation to the street except for maybe gaining a familiarity with timing and opposition. But everything from distancing to proper structure and power are missing.

[G95champ]

Control and Safety

[Chirath]

Wouldn't it be common sense to make the first hit?

[Mr Pockets]

One thing this kind of kumite teaches that continuous kumite does not is to not get hit. The goal is to be the first to strike, not to strike the hardest. On the street, being the first to hit is very important because if you make the first hit your opponent is stunned and you become more likely to make the second hit, and so on.

If only it were that simple. If you get in a fight, odds are pretty good you'll take a hit or two. Ironically- a boxer is most likely to take the least hits, and deal with the hits the best.