I want your Insight

[GoGoGo]

Being a teenager in modern society, I've noticed some really interesting things. Bruce Lee was more than just a fighter obviously... He was also a very intellectual person who studied major concepts that people today still do not understand and are ignorant about. Such concepts as the difference between the attitude of an average Westerner and an average Oriental... And that actually being good at fighting is totally different than acting "tough."

Well, in modern society (and maybe it's always been this way in the past too), I'm sure you've noticed that people always think "Bigger and tougher" is better. They think "He could kick that kid's *" and etc simply by looking at someone. Though almost none of these people know how to fight whatsoever. They judge fighting skill based upon muscle size and ego.

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. The sad part is that a large majority of the world falls for this stuff. I'm not sure if it's from movies or what.

I am not a martial artist (yet), I'm simply an individual who is interested in this type of study and Bruce Lee's beliefs. I'm also interested in martial arts and hope to some time join up. So I'd love the insight of experienced martial artists here. My question for you is this:

Will someone who trains day in and day out in martial arts, no matter their ego/size, most likely defeat someone who just acts (and possibly looks) tough but knows nothing about fighting other than maybe a few fights he has experienced?

To take this to another level. Would Bruce Lee most likely defeat people like "Kimbo Slice?"

I remember talking to a lot of people once about Kimbo and all of them said things like "OMG, Kimbo would kill Bruce Lee, he's much bigger" "Hahah, You need to let go of Bruce" etc... I think you get the point.

My other question is, are these fighters really as dedicated as Bruce Lee was or is it more of a "showy" thing now adays? I remember Bruce Lee saying that he believed fighting was to express yourself honestly...

Thanks for your time.

EDIT: If you havn't seen "Kimbo Slice" here's a video...But be warned, it's quite violent: Click.

As you can see, he's much different than Bruce Lee in that he seems to lack any sort of discipline and basically acts like a ranting "tough" kid.

[italian_guy]

I think that fighting is not only a matter of strenght or power or any other purely physical quality.

You need also technique. The relative importance of the two aspects (physical qualities or technique) is a subject for a never ending debate. You need to have both to be a good figher. This is for sure.

About the video you show I think that probably Bruce Lee or any very good MA Like Mas Oyama or Royce Gracie or maybe even Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris at the top of their form could have defeated him.

[cathal]

About the video you show I think that probably Bruce Lee or any very good MA Like Mas Oyama or Royce Gracie or maybe even Bill Wallace and Chuck Norris at the top of their form could have defeated him.

I agree with that, and wanted to say that after watching the video that person doesn't have a good attitude. The opponent got the fight out of him after just a few hits. It was obvious he didn't want to fight anymore, and was definitely psyched out. Yet he made the fight go on. If any good fighter were in that match, he would have accepted the man's desire to stop fighting, and simply declared that a victory.

[swdw]

Bruce was an incredible martial artist. However, the myth that Bruce Lee understood things people still don't is propogated by the fans that choose to worship him rather than respect him.

The Macho attitude you refer to is propgated by the media because it sells. Movies like Triple X contribute to the machismo going on. Few people teach their kids nowadays that the real measure of a man is to have high personal integrity, stand up for what he believes in, and walk away from a fight when there's nothing at stake other than his ego.

Kids used to be taught that it takes more character to walk away from someone chosing to belittle them than to square off with that individual. Why? Because you have to have a healthy self esteem to do so and not give a rip what other people think.

However, to step in and defend someone that's weaker, or to defend yourself when attacked is a different thing. This is not machismo, but doing what has to be done.

Who cares if Bruce could or couldn't defeat a UFC or pride fighting champion. He was a key person, at a key time ,who was dedicated and who developed his skills to a phenomenal level. He should be admired and respected for his achievements. Bruce Lee helped the arts develop to a new level and MANY benefited from his viewpoints. What has Kimbo Slice done for anyone besides himself?

One is a great person and the other is basically a thug. This is what you need to bring up when people ask inane questions about who's better than who.

[Musse]

The neighbourhood bad boy doesn't need to fight, it's enough to act tough. Most of the times people get scared by just using threats.

Kids used to be taught that it takes more character to walk away from someone chosing to belittle them than to square off with that individual.

I don't know what kids used to be taught but I doubt there are many kids who walked away from fights and walked proudly next day in school.

Size and height may not always mean a good fighter but the chances are that the big guy is a lot stronger than you and lets face it, the opponent would probably be scared of him and would think that he was gonna lose the fight.

- Musse

[JusticeZero]

Few people teach their kids nowadays that the real measure of a man is to have high personal integrity, stand up for what he believes in, and walk away from a fight when there's nothing at stake other than his ego.

Kids used to be taught that it takes more character to walk away from someone chosing to belittle them than to square off with that individual. Why? Because you have to have a healthy self esteem to do so and not give a rip what other people think.

As I recall and have heard from others experiencing the same things I did, the culture in schools is pretty messed up. While walking away from a fight when there is nothing at stake but one's ego is a good thing, from a pragmatic point of view, a child also needs to be able to publically demonstrate a willingness to use violence effectively in order to preserve face. Hardly a peaceful or enlightened thing, but leaving one other kid bruised and bloodied over a relatively minor slight now will likely save a child from quite a bit of pointless conflict and victimization over the course of their educational career. Don't start fights. Don't go looking for fights. Don't try to pump yourself up as some 'tough guy' because you just end up looking stupid. But the first fight to come to you under the watchful eyes of your savage peers, finish in a way that there is no doubt about your willingness to leave any future challengers in more pain than the minor pleasure of harassment is worth. I'm not a fan of teaching people how to be victims. As uncomfortable as it may be to admit, on occasion, violence really is the answer.

[Cmon]

From what i have seen from the video that Kimbo is just a bully. He is big and can take punches. But i think BL could win because BL is smaller built then him i think that would work in his advantage.

But what i think is ironic is when at the end someone says

"Now that's F***ing good sportmanship right there"

Wow did that guy watch the same fight that was not sportmanship like just because they hug at the end doesn't make up for him carrying on the fight after the other guy had said he didn't want to fight..

[AnonymousOne]

It is said Bruce Lee was a great martial artist. How good he actually was was never tested. Some claimed he was the best in the world. But thats very hard to prove when he never fought all the top MA in the world.

Yes he was promoted by many top USA MA but to me that is not enough to determine he was the best.

He did many good looking things on screen, but then again any competent MA can do the same.

As for his philosophy I dont buy it, then again I dont buy any modern psycho-babble either.

[mai tai]

agreed

[PrideampPoise]

As for his philosophy I dont buy it, then again I dont buy any modern psycho-babble either.

We all have our own philosophy on how we view the world and ourselves as a part of it. Much (though not all) of the influence on Bruce's views came from Eastern and Greek philosophers of the past, as opposed to those espousing "modern psycho-babble".