Kumite-Still required?

[Sandan]

Recently I have been talking with a number of clubs through out Europe and there are not a huge amount of clubs doing, what I would term to be regular Kumite.

Now in my mind Kumite is an integral part of Karate and should be done at least once every training session though not always at the same intensity. Then once a month or so I would host a 'squad training' session for my club with a very high intensity on Kumite, surprisingly I don't just get people who are on the squad.

So with or without competition, (which is another conversation) Kumite... thoughts please...

[JimmyNewton]

i loved kumite. i have heard of dojos relying strictly on katas. while kkatas are importants, sparring gives you a chance to work against people. we would spar once a week. sometimes all out, sometimes for points, sometimes EXTREMLY LIGHT, sometimes 3 minutes rounds, and so on.

i think its a chance to stay in shape, practice techniques, learn how to take a hit, and it seems to me, those who do not practice at it regularly would be more at a bigger disadvantage. i know in the through the 60's-80'severyone was all about sparring. seems as people have gotten a lot softer over the years. just my opnion thouhg

[vertigo]

Now it depends on your definition of kumite. If you mean free-sparring (or even semi-free, most of the time), I have very little practice with this.

However, we commonly incorporate one-step (especially!) and three-step (only for our lower belt tests) kumite into our classes.

Is it an integral part of karate? To me, I suppose so, as we do so many one-steps; which are nice, because we usually practice different applications of a move during those. Others may disagree and say kata is far more important, but I guess I see a balance between kumite-kata-kihon as pretty essential.

Just my thoughts.

[Sandan]

i know in the through the 60's-80'severyone was all about sparring. seems as people have gotten a lot softer over the years.

I totally agree. I recently attended a kumite course and it didn't matter what sex or age you were, everyone was in good form and went for each other. It was scary but fantastic!!!

[JimmyNewton]

i wish it was more like that. i've heard instructors had troube keeping students when they held class like that.

oh well, what can you do. i'm sure theres still some old school dojos out there though. not saying people should beat each other senseless. any 2 knuckleheads can through gloces on and wail on each other. however kumite should be mixed up and vary in intensity. every once and a while though people should ge tto get padded up and go all out for a dose of semi-reality,

[Sandan]

Yes but you see this class was by invitation only so those who came along were 'up for it' so as to speak. Still I'm female and sometimes guys do hold back, not at this course... it was brill!

[kenpo_fighter]

oh my god! a karate dojo with absolutly no kumite?! that's unheard of to me. coming up in the ranks of a kyokushin karate dojo, kumite was about 50% of what we did. and we sparred WITHOUT pads. kids ranging from about 7+ didn't have sparring equipment.

kata was an integral part of our training, but it was soley in place to aid in technique development. even my sensei used to say in class "kata will not save your buty in a real fight".

we trained old school, too. bare-knuckle push ups on a hardwood floor. our dojo didn't have air conditioning. so, it was inferno hot in the summer, and arctic cold in the winter. we would even kick the solid wood pilars that held the dojo up, all sorts of body conditioning exercises.

i've always been a strong believer in the philosiphy "you fight how you practice". if you train as is you were really fighting, then, the real deal is nothing more than a workout.

[Skeptic 2004]

I'll make this brief...(otherwise I'd just go on and on....)

In his youth, Chosin Chibana had a reputation for being a talented, tough nailed, ferocious fighter. He calmed considerably as he got older. Chosin Chibana had three K's:

Kihon

Kata

Kumite

The kihon were basics. You needed to learn the basics in order to do kata. Kata was the fundamental aspect of karate training, he once said "Karate no michi wa, kata no renshuu koto" (rough translation: Karate's path is through the practice of kata). Kumite was kata in action with a live, resisting opponent. There was something particular about his three K's however: they all diverged to kata. Kata is the core and central focus of karate, according to Chosin Chibana. Kumite's utility is limited to one's understanding of the application of kata - if you don't understand kata, you're not going to understand kumite.

Edit: My brevity was due in large part to me having to run and take care of some business. I realize now that I probably could have been even more brief with the following couched in simple logic terms:

Kihon - necessary, but not sufficient

Kata - necessary and sufficient

Kumite - necessary, but not sufficient

[aefibird]

We train a lot in kumite in my dojo...but we also train a lot in kihon and kata too. My Sensei always says that you have to get a balance between these three.

He's trained with Japanese sensei (his instructors were Japanese) and also trained extensively in Japan, so he's still of the "old school" - makiwara, traditional wooden floor, kumite without padding, conditioning exercises etc etc etc. I'm sure that you know the type of dojo I mean.

We tend to mostly train without padding, especially the adults. If anyone wants to wear kumite protection equipment then that's up to them, but Sensei never does. I tend to wear a mouthguard when I spar, but that's 'cos I happen to like my teeth... Nah, I have weak teeth and I've had to have quite a bit of dental work on them in the past.

Our kumite is a mix of light contact, one- three- and five-step sparring, semi contact points sparring, heavy contact point spar and all-out full contact NHB type of stuff.

[italian_guy]

We have two classes in our school, the traditionalist class and the competitor class (I'm attending both).

In the traditional class we do kata-kihon-kumite in equal amount (by kumite here I also mean drills and grappling) in the competitor class we do mostly kumite every 1.5 hours at least 1 hour is kumite (drills and free sparring). In order to get belts you have to attend the traditional class if you want to compete or you like extra sparring (this is my case) You attend the competitor class.

I agree that the heart of karate is kata and its bunkai but you need also kumite if you want to put in practice with a resisting opponent what you have learnt throu kata.