Have you ever heard about a student failing a belt test?

[shogeri]

In the various schools, I've attended, the more a student asks, the more they are put at the back on the line...

It's called respecting the ability of the instructor to know when a student is ready.

What's the point of having instructors, if students do not feel that other's should be able to dictate when or if, they know a particular technique or principle of a given style or system.

Just my two cents...

[angus88]

If nobody is failing, maybe the standards aren't high enough to call it real karate.

I think the relevant question is how often your school conducts tests. If your school has a belt test once a month whether you've got people ready to test or not, then yeah, you've got a valid point. In that case a certain percentage should fail because nobody is always ready to test every month. And if you pass a test when you're not ready, that doesn't say much about your school.

But, however, if you only test a student when you know he is ready, the testing becomes almost a formality. They probably won't fail because they are truly ready. That doesn't guarantee anything, but it makes the ratio from pass to fail much higher.

[NidaninNJ]

If nobody is failing, maybe the standards aren't high enough to call it real karate.

I think the relevant question is how often your school conducts tests. If your school has a belt test once a month whether you've got people ready to test or not, then yeah, you've got a valid point. In that case a certain percentage should fail because nobody is always ready to test every month. And if you pass a test when you're not ready, that doesn't say much about your school.

But, however, if you only test a student when you know he is ready, the testing becomes almost a formality. They probably won't fail because they are truly ready. That doesn't guarantee anything, but it makes the ratio from pass to fail much higher.

I agree. It really depends on how often the tests are and if the instructor is filtering the students so the people taking the tests are all the ones most likely to pass.

[JimmyNewton]

i actually had my test this saturday and did not pass.

i thought i was ready. It was actually myself and one other student testng together, and neither one of us passed.

we had to write a paper, go over al techniques, self defense drills, sparring drills, a katas, all weapons, etc.

however, we had 2 weeks off of practice to prepare on our own, which we did. however, in those 2 weeks, myself and the other student did not communicate outside of class.

we found out that by not communicating and working TOGETHER outide of class, we failed. We failed each other as classmates because you are only as strong as your weakest link. Sensei did not mention when we' retest, but said if we do not get t together and work as a team, we will remain profesional brown belts unless we go to another dojo and "buy" a black belt form them. it was a humbling experience. We are now communicatiing daily and holding each other accountable for practicing outside of class. its like we report to each other to and are working as a support system. Sensei hammered the issue of teamwork and that in life, you cannot get anywhere without the help of others.

We are trying to resolve our issue and hopefully will retest soon.

[JWLuiza]

we found out that by not communicating and working TOGETHER outide of class, we failed. We failed each other as classmates because you are only as strong as your weakest link. Sensei did not mention when we' retest, but said if we do not get t together and work as a team, we will remain profesional brown belts unless we go to another dojo and "buy" a black belt form them. it was a humbling experience. We are now communicatiing daily and holding each other accountable for practicing outside of class. its like we report to each other to and are working as a support system. Sensei hammered the issue of teamwork and that in life, you cannot get anywhere without the help of others.

We are trying to resolve our issue and hopefully will retest soon.

??? How old are you? Why would communicating with someone from class be a requisite for the judgement of technique? Do these requiremetns hold to everyone in your dojo? Support systems come in all shapes and sizes.

[JimmyNewton]

i'm 28. it through me for a loop as well.

he does every test differently and i think the point of this one was to illustrate the importance of teamwork.

that and to see if we bounce back, or mope and and break.

[angus88]

Sensei hammered the issue of teamwork and that in life, you cannot get anywhere without the help of others.

I recommend your Sensei read the book "Anthem" by Ayn Rand. Just kidding. But honestly, that's a little extreme to say you can't get anywhere without the help of others.

Karate is not a team sport (or hobby, or whatever you call it for yourself.) One man's failure in karate has nothing to do with you whatsoever. As a friend and dojo-mate, you might like to help each other out, but by no means should that be a requirement of any kind. Just my opinion though.

If you were in the military or training for the police or to be firemen, I could understand his point. Barring that, I think he's wrong.

[JimmyNewton]

i think his military and police background is actually coming into play.

i'm not too broken up about it. we'll work outside of class, eventually re-test, and the lesson will be learned.

i mean , i know people will have mixed opinions, but ultimately, if he saw us as selfsh and needs us t o re-examine ourselves, then its ultimately his call.

[angus88]

That's cool. Don't get me wrong though, I like the idea of team work and all that, and I think it's a good idea to have a sense of responsibility when it comes to your dojo and the other students - to a point.

I've seen selfish karateka and usually they're obnoxious blowhards that really won't go very far in karate. But the way I see it, you're learning a way to protect yourself - that's essentially what you're doing. Now keeping "team work" in perspective, let's say a guy you've been training with for two years suddenly misses a month of training. Is your training supposed to stop? If your dojo mate doesn't pay his dues one month do you have to make up the difference? See what I mean? It's all a matter of how far you take a concept. And I definitely think if you're ready for a test and do well, but the other guy chokes and doesn't do well enough to pass, you should pass and the other guy should fail.

Because the other side to this is, team work can be a crutch for the weak. Why should you be penalized because the other guy's not prepared?

But yeah, I know the type that fails people just to see how they cope - that's a very military way of doing things - not necessarily bad either, but it sounds like you're coping pretty well, so I'm sure you'll do fine next time.

[JimmyNewton]

yeah, i know what you mean. i've had all kind of mixed up, confused feelings.

i'll do the best i can. i tend to to be very modest and humble in the dojo.

i'll admit, i was shook up the day it happened, and definitly thrown for a loop because i felt like i was nailing everything.

(katas, sparring, etc)

but as i mentioned, he has a long police and military background and i think its coming inot play.

i'm sure i'll figure out the motive behind this particular "sphinx riddle" in anohter month or so.

i'll keep you posted when i do.

other than that, i'll keep training and pushing and lend as much as ahelping hand to the other brown belt as i can..