Subtle Indictment

[Shorin Ryuu]

Maybe its just me, but I think there is a lot going on that is similar to what you are saying, AnonymousOne. In terms of pure creative environment, the imposition of rigid style delineations (which is more recent that the imposition of style delineations themselves in the early 1900s) in my opinion was a regression. I still wouldn't say innovation stopped in the 1900s. In fact, the early 1900s saw an almost re-flowering of innovation.

 

But even nowadays, there are many venues for sharing knowledge at the intra- and inter-organizatonal levels, between different dojo, and simply between different individuals. You can't downplay the individual variation of people who follow even just one main system of fighting, or their efforts to expand and learn about others (not necessarily learn them, but learn about them).

 

As far as modifying kata goes, people do it all the time. Nowadays we put karate masters on the spot by asking "what is the official way to do the kata?" We have them make videos or ask how they "count" a certain kata. But in the old days, they weren't necessarily always as precise in their hand placement or demanding that everyone look exactly the same. Because everyone's body is different, the kata will look different. Maybe the emphasis isn't on placing one hand with the fingers of one hand touching the wrist, maybe the emphasis was placed on crossing your hands in whatever manner you can without having to rotate the body, which means the hands will be in a slightly different position for every body type. My kata is different from my instructor's, which is different from his. There is the basic "set" way of doing the kata, but everyone has their own way of doing it, when it comes down to it. The different ways of doing kata that we have now are for the most part, representing the different ways that people did the kata back then. It is mostly because they used to teach to the individual student, which was easier when you did not have a large number of students like you do nowadays. This practice has not disappeared. Since I know my organization best, I can point to several individuals who based upon my body type, suggested I look into doing a move a certain way, while suggesting a different position to the person next to me for the exact same move.

 

As far as creating too many new kata, there really is only so much that is new under the sun. But there are still innovations and things you can do. For example, the North American director for my system has a version of Naihanchi Shodan that you go forwards and backwards rather than side-to-side. For people like him that have had an incredible wealth of not just experience, but worthwhile experience and individual examination of his training (he always says 90% of what he knows he had to figure out by himself), I think it is entirely justified to do things like this. This "Naihanchi to the Front" of his didn't just take into account variations of Naihanchi, but also breathing, bunkai, and all the other necessary levels of understanding necessary for a kata. These things are not the subject of dismay. What gets me (not really, I actually don't care if people want to do this...I just won't follow them) is people that create a kata without doing the necessary depth of analysis.

 

As far as the depth of funding that isn't in karate as compared to other things like Olympic sports, there are several reasons. The first obvious one is because it doesn't attract as much money to itself. The second is sport karate isn't the same as true karate. Sport karate is still karate, but it is more of a training method rather than the actual thing. You can innovate the training method, but it isn't exactly the same as innovating karate as a whole. A third reason is due to the full range, to include lethality, of concepts and techniques in karate, it is harder to study them to the utmost than it is in boxing, for example, which although it has an incredible depth of theory, is still limited due to all the rules. And even much more difficult than something like track, where it is only the individual trying to maximize several important parameters without having to worry about an opponent trying to hurt them. The reason for this is that getting a better strke in karate doesn't just mean being able to hit a target with more force. The type of force, specific means of application and how the human body reacts is far more important. It is harder to adequately test these systematically in a laboratory environment without injuring the test subject. This is where relying in part on the wisdom of old comes in handy. Due to the inherent martial nature of karate, it must not only take into account maximizing the user, but also in minimizing, so to speak, the recipient.

 

I still feel we are living in an exciting time. While I may often lament many of the bad aspects that commercialization and mass marketing has introduced, I also appreciate its benefits. I honestly believe that through the increased sharing of knowledge available, we are in effect rediscovering much of what was known to the "old masters" and there is innovation still occuring. One only has to weed through the horde of crappy books on martial arts and find the good ones to see what I am talking about. The information age has made such things possible. The ability to travel and meet with many other people has contributed as well.

 

So while I doubt there will ever be scientific study conducted with as much depth and funding as Olympic track events, hope is far from being lost.

[pers]

[

 

Other masters modified them were they broken?

 

No they werent! They were searching for better ways to perform.

 

I think its probably true to say that every Master of days gone by, in one way or another modified Karate in one way or another.

 

I think its human nature to seek better more efficient ways in all areas of endeavour.

 

I just simply dont believe that Karate is perfect. I dont believe it ever will be perfect. However I sure feel its a good idea to seek perfection.

 

I agree with most of what you say ,one always looks to improve and find new ways ,karate has evolved like every thing else ,but if it one thing which will never be perfect it is us the human being ! perfection in any art takes a life time and even then one feels he still has room to improve.

 

Today planes can virtualy fly and navigate by themselves and pilots act as managers in there ,but they still know how to do things the old way . so keeping tradition and searching for new things and ways is important.

[italian_guy]

WOW!! I have to remeber this thread when there will be the nominations for best thread of the year.

 

I tend to support innovation and developent, also because innovation is something you cannot stop, and also because anything which does not undergo evolution will sooner or later die.

 

However there should be a core of technique and traditions that should never be changed... because this will give the definion of karate itself (or a particular karate style) Anyway I have not a definite opinion on this thread but I think this is one of the best debate I have withnessed in this forum since I have joined. Please keep it going.

[MASIsshinryu]

IMHO Karate is a mosaic, with components such as specific techniques being but little dots of color. Katas and such that make use of those would be larger pieces of the puzzle. As we progress thorughour training, over years of effort, our individual mozaic comes together, with the end result being a honed spirit, honed skills and an improved person. That is a full, vibrant, colorful mosaic that we each struggle to create.

 

Advancements and refinements are great things, as long as the mosaic is not tainted or washed out by the replacement of spirit with technology. To make a small advancement in a given skill, at the expense of some development of character, goes against the intent of any given Way.

 

Improve the theory, but retain the spirit. That is the challenge to be faced.

 

At the end of one's days, when they think back on their life and what they have accomplished, one should not have a completed mosaic which is devoid of color. Our link to traditions provides our "color."

[jarrettmeyer]

There is a profound balancing act between remembering the old and evolving the new. I think that the masters of old were able to evolve the arts because of the number of dedicated years each devoted to the study of arts.

 

My father works for . All the time with him, it's, "We new this design didn't work in the 70's. Why are these college gradu-idiots trying it now?"

 

After 5 years of teaching computer programming, I still believe that programming design should be done away from a computer. Try telling that to a college freshman. They just don't get it.

 

Regardless of field, whether it's math, physics, or martial arts, you can only improve when you know what has been done before. It is my belief that there are very few martial arts students today who know enough to evolve the system. I know that although MA may contribute greatly to my life, that I will never give anything back. Why? I'm not that dedicated. Yes, I work out. Yes, I practice my forms at home. Yes, I give 100% every time I am at the dojo. Yes, I am trying to learn to apply calmness and courtesy to my daily work life.

 

No, I will not live up to what those teachers thought a student should be.

 

To further complicate the matter, not only do you have to be good enough at what you do, you also must be a good teacher of your craft. I have met many who would be excellent innovators in their field, but lack the communication skills to send forth their ideas.