What are the laws on using karate in self defense?

[swdw]

It amazes me the lack of teaching on this subject by many instructors.

 

And blowing it off with the "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is a statement made from pure ignorance of the realities of the court system.

 

Here's some good books with general references, you'll have to check the specifics in your state:

 

The legal implications of self-defense: A reference manual for the martial arts

 

The Law of Self-Defense: A Guide for the Armed Citizen (currently out of print and hard to find)

 

Hurting an attacker during self defense can be legal or illegal. This depends on the force employed by the attacker and used by the defender and many other factors. It also can depend on whether or not your state has a turn around law. Anyone not knowing what this term means had bettered hit the books- this alone can land you in jail on assault charges (even if you had to defend yourself empty handed against a armed attacker).

[ShirKhan]

At least to my experience, a lot also depends on the outlook and temperament of an omnipotent judge...I think mine spent his whole life on the "right" side of town from his silver spoon on up...

 

BTW before anyone mentions it, I have consulted lawyers who specialize in "felony abatement" procedures, because of recent "get tough on crime" laws enacted in my state, I have NO option to have this taken off my record. The good news is, if I'm a good little citizen for the next 20 years, I can ask the governor for a pardon, which would take the felony off my record. So I could probably go back to work at the same time that I would be eligible to collect Social Security...

 

[kchenault]

Here's a story my brother told me recently happened to him. He went out with some friends in Vegas. They brought another of their friends along. He became beligerant as the night wore on and after trying to fight his friend, punched my brother in the cab. My brother is not a MA, just one tough guy, he tends to drop people with literally one hit. Not bragging, just setting the stage. So, they stop the cab, get out and try to get control of this guy. He won't stay down. My brother fights him for almost 1 whole hour. He finally reverse suplexes him onto the curb. I warned my brother that he could have killed this guy. The guys cries for a little bit and gets up and comes at my brother again. My brother drops him again and then leaves as quickly as he can. The police finally show up and want to know who did this to this guy. His friends won't tell. Here's the kicker, the bad guy was a drug addict high on CRACK! That's right, had my brother stuck around for the cops he would have gone to jail if not prison because some guy decided to smoke 2 rocks of crack before going out and then losing his mind. THAT IS WHACKED!

[Scand]

In my country (non-US) self-defence is described as simultaneous actions taken with the assault, thus an immediate counter would be "legal" but an evasion and a kick afterwards would be interpreted as revenge. Naturally pre-emptive strikes would be considered illegal. If I've understood the law right, you're basically allowed to fight back the assault, not the assaulteer.

 

If there are no witnesses, the guy with least criminal records and MA experience would probably win. Law's hard, and under that fact I'd probably call in an ambulance if I knocked a guy out without any eye-witnesses hanging around and leave the place in quiet and fast. Sounds a bit harsh, unfair and responsibilityless but I believe that MY life shouldn't be messed up because some crack-head decided to attack me.

 

Of course I wouldn't meaningly hurt him, but hey, accidents happen and we're all humans here. I don't exactly believe that the court would pay any attention to me saying: "Honestly I didn't mean to! Besides, he's the bad guy, he's the one with the criminal record and he's the one who tried to knife me!"

 

Thanks to the law, I somehow believe that the more I train to defend myself (and possibly my closest-ones) the less I'm allowed to do so. Yes yes, I've the responsibility as the more experienced and I should have known that certain things are not good for human body, but I also know that certain, quite sharp objects aren't going to do me any good in my guts.

[Chaz]

Part of my training is putting on the correct show for this legal system we have. I train to always have my hands up in front of my face and make sure my opponent and any wittnesses understand I don't want to fight... Even in self-defense, you can still get screwed if your not careful. I think if you do this, there is a clear action that shows your intentions, if he attacks through that, i would say your in pretty good shape...

[Snakeeel]

In my city the cops are a pretty raucous bunch themselves. If you are attacked you can pretty much do what you want except kill the man. Street fights that don't end up in a stabbing or shooting are basically ignored. We are a town of about 35,000 people with a bar on every corner (seems like it anyway). If they arrested everyone for fighting on a Saturday night the jail would have to be way bigger!

 

Guess it pays to live in a small town in West-by God-Virginia.

[honour is life]

thank god for england!

 

the brittish aproach is use 'sufficiant force' basicly, if the bloke is gonna try and kill you you can do almost anything to deffend yourself as long as its justified. but if he was going to flick you in the ear then you cant jus turn round and floor him.

 

another great thing is that if you feel threatened for any good reason then that is seen as justification for self defence! the only problem is proving it!

[Muaythaiboxer]

i took aikido for a short while and the aikido teacher spent over a year fighting an assult and battery charge(he won). my former aikido teacher was walking home from work and he has to walk past a bar two men that where just thrown out decided to beat someone up, my teacher was struck in the face then he threw one guy into the other, one of the guys got up and my teacher kicked him in the chest breaking his coller bone, my teacher called the cops and was arrested!!! luckily he got off

[Gumbi]

I have heard once that if you reach a certain dan rank (or whatever your system uses) you will be liable as if you were armed at all times.

 

It sounds a bit like an urban legend, but is there any truth to it?

 

Edit: Haha, seems like I graduated with this post

 

Nah thats an urban legend that I believe came from right after the WW2 era- In okinawa, black belt Karate instructors were required to be registered for whatever reason (though I believe it had nothing to do with the law, but rather so these people would be certified instructors in karate under the state). It was something like that, but we caught a bad hangover here in the US from it.

 

As far as "self defense" is concerned,

 

1:you have to be in immediate danger (i.e. a guy confronts you right there and puts his hands up in a fighting position).

 

2:You are also required to retreat and run away, unless that puts you in greater danger (i.e. hes too close that if I turn my back to run, he could strike/attack me).

 

3: you may only respond with the same level of intensity of your attacker (i.e. if he pushes me, I cant punch him back- if he punches me, I cant stab/shoot him).

 

4: Once again, you're obligated to retreat should there be a break in the fight (i.e. you knock him to the ground with a punch and hes dazed and heavily disoriented for a few seconds and you did not follow him down to the ground (such as a tackle or takedown would have you) I can not come over and start curb stomping him into the ground).

[Grenadier]

I have heard once that if you reach a certain dan rank (or whatever your system uses) you will be liable as if you were armed at all times.

 

It sounds a bit like an urban legend, but is there any truth to it?

 

There are no federal or state laws requiring such legislation, and even if some oddball locality managed to pass such garbage legislation (some have tried), it would most likely fail. Even if it did pass, such a community most likely does not have the resources to enforce such a law, and that any reasonable court would squash such legislation.