Kuk Sool Form Applications

[taiji fajin]

KS forms teach meany things - balance, breathing control, practicing punches, kicks, blocks, strength training, the list goes on. However, I'm wondering what other things are the more "hidden" in the forms that people have thought of.

 

Examples -

 

Cho Geup Hyung: Backward shift and bringing hands down right before double palm strike at the beginning could get your body use to weight shifting and correct motion for backwards elbow strike.

 

Double palm strike at the end, hand movement can translate to Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bohn Soo #8.

 

Guhm Moo Hyung: Ki expansion before side kick at the end can translate to lots of places, using the intention of the body growing large to tighten joint locks, such as in Sohn Mohk Soo 5 (can even use as a break here before the throw) or Yahng Sohn Mohk Soo #14 (hands "growing" apart used to hurt / break finger joints to help your wrists escape).

 

What other things have you guys come up with or been shown? It does not have to be for a technique that we also practice, but just a general motion to help with defense, joint locking (perhaps moving jointlocking?) etc.

[SBN Doug]

A very interesting topic to start. I must admit, I've been a been lazy about remembering the subtle things within the forms I've noticed. However, I'll be going through them quite a lot this week getting ready for the test, so I'll try and remember some of the things I have noticed.

 

On the other hand, I have already noticed a subtle difference between some of our movements. I've never seen a ki expansion (I assume you mean one of the Ki Cho Jah Ki) before the side kick in Guhm Moo Hyung. I've only seen double mantis grab, pulling the attackers apart, before the side kick to one and the inside kick to the other. We also do not have any double palm strike in Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bohn Soo #8, just a lock/pull under with the left and single hand strike with the other. So, we may come up with an interesting discussion on the subtle differences in how we learned our hyung & techniques as well.

[taiji fajin]

Testing this week? Good luck, You'll have to tell us how it goes. Do you know yet who the masters are that are going to be there?

 

As for the differences:

 

I was talking about the mantis grab, though, it was never explained as pulling the attackers apart to me. I'll have to try it like that. My instructor told us it was about moving energy, and after that two different mantis blocks at the same time. We were told to imagine we were pulling something elastic apart, such as taffy. From there, I have started doing it with the more ki based method of using intention to feel the the whole body is growing, and specifically (since it starts from the main area where ki is stored) as using external movement to help control internal movement, ie the arms moving to expand the ki out in the body, so then after awhile the internal could control the external, ie, moving your ki outward to make the arms more solid.

 

In Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bohn Soo #8, it is not an exact translation over, it more deals with the (again) intention, and with general arm movements. As the chop is coming down, it is caught with both hands having the fingers pointed in the same direction (avoiding the thumb sticking out in case the block is slightly off, so your thumb is not broken). This hand set up is similar to the end of Cho Geup Hyung, though they are angled slightly off. Since a powerful downward chop like that is not likely to be stopped in a short distance, the hands absorb the blow, moving slightly downward as the hand hits them (this is also in accordance with the fundamental technique principals "you won hwa"). The movement back up resembles the end of Cho Geup Hyung. The only differences are the footwork continues in the technique (and opposite foot is forward to start with) and instead of ending with a double palm strike, it ends with one of your hands going up toward the attackers hand and pulling it into a joint lock. The power needed to push their hand back up (or even to just push them away after the attack, if you do not want to use the lock) can be trained doing Cho Geup Hyung. It makes the movement much more powerful, and the joint lock tighter.

 

Thanks about the thread, I'm really hoping it will lead to interesting areas, both because of subtle differences we have all been taught, and also because of things we have learned or incorporated on our own.

[SBN Doug]

O.k. then, we are the same on the first. Your school seems to focus more on the ki in the beginning than the ones I've been to. You will use what you've ben taught to make the arms solid and pull them appart. Right arm comes back to shoulder while left remails more in front.

 

On the second, I'll have to disagree. They may seem similar, but one is simply a double-handed grab at the wrist, while te other is a definate double side palm strike. And, as you know, the fingers must be spread, and the angle correct for the palm strike. The fingers should be together ( except of course for the thumbs) and adapt to the attacker's arm angle on the block.

[taiji fajin]

Yes, there are several differences between the two. I only meant the gross movement in one could help in training the other.

 

more examples:

 

There are times when returning to left gaurd stance where I will swing my right arm in a semi-circle, from back to front, so the hand is slightly out in front of me. Then I will take it in a straight line running alongside (but not against) my body, while the left hand, ever so slightly under the left moves in the exact opposite straight line, ending up in front of me, so I am in a normal left gaurd stance (this all happens in one fluid motion. This could be a grab with the right hand (comes forward to grab) and then pulls the person back, almost into me, while the left strikes out against their incoming body with the edge of the hand.

 

First step up to one leg in cho geup hyung could be evasive foot work for in close fighting (avoiding a foot sweep, perhaps), and then coming down to regain stability or even stomp on the lower part of the leg that was just trying to sweep you.

 

Two quick side questions,

 

what is the purpose of the ending for go geup hyung / dae geup hyung?

 

what is the purpose of, as I like to call it, (Charlie) Chaplin Ja Se? You guys know what I mean . I've heard a reason for it, but I'm not sure how reliable it is.