Judo as a self defense system

[cathal]

In wrestling with my older brother (a good judoka), I've experienced first hand its effectiveness.

[italian_guy]

I voted effective. But if your main goal is self denfence by using a grappling MA I would take Ju-Jutstu (either JJJ or BJJ).

[Venrix]

Hi.

I certainly support the claim that Judo is effective on the street. However, Judo alone will not protect you from a serious striker. I am proficient in Kyokushin and Muay Thai (as a striker) plus Judo and BJJ as a grappler.

If any one of these was completely 'self sufficient' - why would I waste my time?

Also, please consider Jon Bluming (Kodokan 9. Dan and Judo LEGEND). At 4. Dan in Judo he started working with Kyokushin Karate. The merger of the two skill sets led Don Draeger to call him 'an animal' (and he meant it as a compliment).

Jon Bluming now holds 10. Dan Kyokushin, 9. Dan Judo, 4. Dan Bo Jitsu, 4. Dan Jodo, 4. Dan Iai Jitsu, 2. Dan Kendo. His 'core' arts are Kyokushin and Judo. You will note that throughout the entire life of this martial arts legend - he considered that a well versed ability in a striking art and a grappling art is neccessary for 'urban survival'. I happen to agree with him. Indeed, his 10. Dan comes as a result of his striking art (Karate) not Judo.

I must also state - if someone where to tell me that I can only continue with 1 art for the rest of my life - I would stick with the striking. Why?

Yes - it's true that 90% of fights go to the ground (this is because 90% of fighters are ineffective strikers and they go with the 'grappling instinct' that all humans possess). However, is also a fact that 99.9% of fights start with striking! Personally, I would prefer to end the conflict BEFORE the grappling becomes an issue.

My ultimate choice (and current practice): be well versed in all three combat zones... ....strike, transition (throw) and ground. But, I would never lose sight of my 'bread and butter' and that's my striking.

-V-

[cathal]

Well Venrix let me begin by saying I respect your opinion. But I do not agree with it completely. I have faught against judoka and noted the art's effectiveness first hand. As in many things I feel it depends on the person fighting, his training experience, and instruction.

[Gumbi]

.

I certainly support the claim that Judo is effective on the street. However, Judo alone will not protect you from a serious striker.

Sure it will- there were many successful Judoka in MMA events that were able to close the distance and easily throw their striking opponents. It depends what you mean when you say "protect."

. I must also state - if someone where to tell me that I can only continue with 1 art for the rest of my life - I would stick with the striking. Why?

Yes - it's true that 90% of fights go to the ground (this is because 90% of fighters are ineffective strikers and they go with the 'grappling instinct' that all humans possess). However, is also a fact that 99.9% of fights start with striking! Personally, I would prefer to end the conflict BEFORE the grappling becomes an issue.

Your opponent is going to have his preferences too- not everything goes the way you want it to in a fight. Even with effective strikers, the fight will have a tendency to go to the ground- think about it- 2 rather large bipedal animals pushing, shoving, and crashing into each other. As far as which style you'd prefer to be proficient in, well you said it yourself- its your preference- grappling would be my preference.

[Venrix]

there were many successful Judoka in MMA events that were able to close the distance and easily throw their striking opponents. It depends what you mean when you say "protect."

There have been no successful Judoka in MMA events. Yes, they have 'taken down' their opponent - but they have virtually ALWAYS lost their matchups. Also, I am not talking about competition (a world with rules) - I am talking about the street (a world without rules).

As far as which style you'd prefer to be proficient in, well you said it yourself- its your preference- grappling would be my preference.

I never suggested otherwise. However, it's interesting to note - I am proficient in all of the styles that I have discussed. I make my decisions based on experience - not on MMA events.

-V-

[Gumbi]

There have been no successful Judoka in MMA events. Yes, they have 'taken down' their opponent - but they have virtually ALWAYS lost their matchups. Also, I am not talking about competition (a world with rules) - I am talking about the street (a world without rules).

Yoshida, Nakamura, and Karo Parisyan are a few who have had some success- I consider Judo a style for takedowns- just as wrestling is. If you manage to get the fight to the ground, you've proved the effectiveness of that style in that particular phase of fighting. Im by no means a big Judo fan, and I actually really dont like Yoshida, but I give Judo credit where its due.

As far as comparing "street vs sport" that is a dead argument- Yoshida was able to take down one of the best strikers in Wanderlei Silva who's a skilled Jiu Jitsu fighter, has proven difficult to take down, was wearing no clothing, and was expecting Yoshida to close the distance and clinch. If Yoshida gets into a fight with some scrub outside the ring, I'd doubt they'd give him any problems at all (and would hope he doesnt kill the guy when he throws him).

Professional fighters are just that because they're the best at what they do- fighting.

As far as which style you'd prefer to be proficient in, well you said it yourself- its your preference- grappling would be my preference.

I never suggested otherwise. However, it's interesting to note - I am proficient in all of the styles that I have discussed. I make my decisions based on experience - not on MMA events.

-V-

I work at a bar in center city Philadelphia, so rest assured that I get into more than my fair share of altercations, ranging from mild to severe, and I also throw on the gloves from time to time and do a little sparring for fun.

The reason why I advocate grappling is because I feel its much easier to control someone and take advantage of their lack of knowledge in order to basically do what you want with them. There are situations where I dont want to beat the hell out of a guy when I throw him out the doors- being skilled in grappling, not striking, is what helps me accomplish this.

[ravenzoom]

Good point Gumbi, I concur (some little british here!! ). Joking aside, I agree with what you said in your last post about Judo's effectiveness proven in MMA fights. And also, sometimes you don't want to beat the crap out of the guy, so grappling comes in handy.

[judoguy]

What makes judo a great martial art for self defense is the variety of options it gives you in a fight. Throws, pins, locks, and chokes. Stand up, plenty of ground work make it probably the best ALL AROUND grappling art in the world. I've seen a guy get knocked out cold with an extra nasty osoto otoshi on the street before. You can also use some of the techniques standing up as well such as waki gatame (armpit lock). When the inevitable clinch comes up in a fight you will be comfortable, and when the fight hits the ground you will be comfortable.

If you are concerned about striking then I would recommend supplementing your judo with a good no non sense stand up art such as krav maga that will teach you good striking and self defense skills in a short period of time. Remember with judo as your base you don't need to be Chuck Liddel or Wanderlai Silva, you just need to be able to hold your own in striking until you can work the clinch and take em' down hard to do your judo thing on him.

[ravenzoom]

Great post judoguy, I agree with you a 100% on everything you said. Just too bad there's no Krav Maga where I live.