Orders

[siufeifei]

That is exactly why I mentioned the thing about this being the kids class. Right now, to me and from my reading between the lines, this doesn't sound like anything beyond kids squabbling. Add to this the whole boy/girl thing at that age and you'll begin to see the picture that I have in my head. Of course, i could be very wrong.

[TangSooGuy]

The senior-junior relationship really should be about MUTUAL respect, not personal power.

 

The only "orders" that should be given are those that help the student develop in some way. The senior's responsibility is actually greater than the juniors, in that they should be expected not to abuse their authority, as is often the case.

 

"Orders", which I generally try to phrase in the form of requests, but requests that are expected to be honored, should be given when:

 

1. Safety is an issue. Many times a senior may have to bark a command to keep someone from getting hurt.

 

2. Humility needs to be taught. This can take many forms, and is often a fine line to walk. It is not about personally demoralizing the student, or about punishment. It is more about teaching them that everyone needs to cintribute, that even small and seemingly meaningless tasks have great importance, etc. It's not about making someone a personal lave or errand boy, as that is abuse of power.

 

3. Something simply needs doing, and someone is not helping. In that case I have no problem telling my students they needto do something to pull their weight..

 

There are other reasons, too, but I don't want to make this ridiculously long.

 

Some of mystudents who are older than me had a hard time calling me 'sir', or honoring my requests, until they found that I asked no more of them than I asked of myself. As they began to see that I treated my seniors the same way I asked them to treat me, and that I was willing to do whetever work needed doing myself, they began to understand better. Eventually, thing sjust kind of fall into place.

 

Now, if a student is abusing power, it is the instructor's responsibility to do something about it.If it is teh instructor abusing power, I suggest finding a new instructor.

 

One of the best lessons on this entire concept was given by our grandmaster at a regional tournament a few years ago.

 

many of the higher ranking black belts were starting to develop some srious ego problems and were abusing authority. at the end of the day, he handed a garbage bag to each of the Third Dans and told them to clean up the place before we left. (you'd be surprised how mush trash people just left laying around...)

 

It was a lesson to the Third Dans to let them know the impotance of remaining humble, basically telling them they wren't "all that". At the same tie, it was test of the junior ranks to see who stayed around to help the third dans, and who simplly left, showing them disrespect.

[AngelaG]

If you don't want to tell tales on your fellow students (although I still think you should tell the sensei) then next time Craig does something that hurts say something really loud so that everyone cannot help but overhear (including your instructor).

 

"OW! That REALLY hurts, I think you are being a bit too hard!"

[Kieran-Lilith]

Okay, since I've had a bunch of posts where I have facts all mixed around, I'm going to fix that right now.

 

1. I am 14 years old. I am a yellow belt.

 

2. My friend is also 14, but a green belt.

 

3. Craig is a sophomore, and will soon be a nikyu. He tests this month.

 

4. Craig is one of the people Sensei will show how to do a technique with. Sensei never hurts any of us, but he always makes sure Craig knows his place. Always.

 

5. The orders I'm whining about are the ones I get outside the dojo, that restrict my behavior when I'm free to do as I wish.

 

6. The wrist locks I did tap out on...Craig stopped for a moment and switched how he locked it to a way that always hurt even worse.

 

7. He kicked me because I was on the floor a second too long after he'd just throttled my wrist, again.

 

8. No, I'm not generally stubborn and independent around my parents. I do what they ask most of the time. The only time I won't do something is when I don't see the cause, and if that's explained to me, then I'm usually happy to do it.

 

9. Sensei always gives us the reasons why we do things, or why we do push-ups.

 

10. The adults in the advanced class have word over any of the kids, no matter what the kids' rank. I'm in the adult class.

 

11. I do listen when Sensei talks. He's said a lot of things that actually, oddly enough, inspire my behavior. He did tell us to be ourselves and control our own destiny. He also told us that we would reach a point in our training when it stopped being a game, and became life. He's told us a lot of things.

 

12. Sensei watches Craig very closely most of the time. The night I was hurt, he was absent.

 

13. There's a bit of a mystery here. Craig has told my friend he will not be able to test for purple until he gets me under control. Apparently, he can see in my eyes that I'm stubborn, independent, and, truth be told, I'm actually rather arrogant. But at least I can admit it. My friend is worried the order might have been passed down from Sensei. It does not sound like my sensei. My sensei lets me joke around a bit in class, and is always teasing me about my hair, not holding people back because one person is a bit crazy outside the dojo. So, I do listen. Inside the dojo. Outside, if I see the purpose, or a point, I'll do it.

 

I don't know if that helped any. At least it's a little more laid out now...

[kchenault]

8. No, I'm not generally stubborn and independent around my parents. I do what they ask most of the time. The only time I won't do something is when I don't see the cause, and if that's explained to me, then I'm usually happy to do it.

 

You should be happy to do it regardless if you understand why they are asking. Sorry, the parent is coming out in me.

 

I'll say it again, your friend needs to get a pair.

 

Refuse the orders outside the dojo.

 

Report the abusive nature of Craig.

 

Don't blame your rebellious attitude on your Sensei.

 

Oh, and stop whining. It gets annoying.

 

Take the advice or leave it. I'm guessing from your "strong will" that you will leave it and continue to suffer under Craig. The choice is, as you seem to like it, YOURS.

 

Pilsung!

[Grenadier]

3. Craig is a sophomore, and will soon be a nikyu. He tests this month.

 

Someone who is testing for nikyu shouldn't be a bully. Period. It's up to him to recognize that there are different methods for teaching advanced ranks, compared to lower ranks, as well as different methods for teaching, say, grizzled veterans, versus younger people.

4. Craig is one of the people Sensei will show how to do a technique with. Sensei never hurts any of us, but he always makes sure Craig knows his place. Always.

 

If this is the case, then your Sensei should be willing to listen to a complaint with open ears. If he knows of Craig's attitude, then your story becomes that much more believable to him in the end.

5. The orders I'm whining about are the ones I get outside the dojo, that restrict my behavior when I'm free to do as I wish.

 

This has crossed the line. As someone who is not a young child, what you do outside of the dojo, is your choice, and is nobody's business if you don't want them to know. Not Craig's, not an assistant instructor black belt, or even dare I say, your sensei.

6. The wrist locks I did tap out on...Craig stopped for a moment and switched how he locked it to a way that always hurt even worse.

 

This is an example of the lack of restraint on his part, and the lack of respect for others. He should NOT be instructing if he has this attitude.

7. He kicked me because I was on the floor a second too long after he'd just throttled my wrist, again.

 

Again, unacceptable on his part. Even if it were just a friendly light tapping kick, that still shows disrespect, especially since I'm guessing, that you do not consider him a friend.

8. No, I'm not generally stubborn and independent around my parents. I do what they ask most of the time. The only time I won't do something is when I don't see the cause, and if that's explained to me, then I'm usually happy to do it.

 

Again, as long as you aren't doing anything detrimental, your life outside of the dojo is your own business, and nobody else's.

9. Sensei always gives us the reasons why we do things, or why we do push-ups.

 

Please speak with your sensei about this situation. I really doubt that he's going to cast your concerns aside. There are three people who would benefit from this intervention. 1) You will not be subject to such abuse, 2) Craig will not be an abusive person, and 3) sensei isn't going to lose potentially great students because of the abusive actions of Craig. By reporting this matter, you are helping three people, and not hurting anyone.

11. I do listen when Sensei talks. He's said a lot of things that actually, oddly enough, inspire my behavior. He did tell us to be ourselves and control our own destiny. He also told us that we would reach a point in our training when it stopped being a game, and became life. He's told us a lot of things.

 

Then this reinforces my theory that he is willing to listen to your legitimate complaint. It also does the same for my belief that he would also respect your private life, and tell Craig not to interfere with it.

13. There's a bit of a mystery here. Craig has told my friend he will not be able to test for purple until he gets me under control. Apparently, he can see in my eyes that I'm stubborn, independent, and, truth be told, I'm actually rather arrogant. But at least I can admit it. My friend is worried the order might have been passed down from Sensei. It does not sound like my sensei. My sensei lets me joke around a bit in class, and is always teasing me about my hair, not holding people back because one person is a bit crazy outside the dojo.

 

Craig shouldn't have any say in who gets tested. That decision rests with the chief instructor of your dojo, and whatever senior black belts are on the panel. Again, this is something that needs to be brought to your sensei's attention. If something is not done, even if you aren't there, the dojo bully will find another victim that he perceives to be an easy target.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Grenadier

[Kieran-Lilith]

Few things:

 

1. Okay, I'll try to stop whining.

 

2. I didn't realize I put the blame on Sensei. He just has a lot of things to say, and I listen to them and follow through, I don't see why people dislike it.

 

3. Yes, I do like having my own choices. It's what I was taught to expect, and something I learned to fight for back in the second grade.

 

4. I am saying no. It's funny to watch my friend's face.

 

5. I don't think Craig has any say. Only Sensei has a say, we're such a small school I don't think we even have a panel.

 

6. I know Craig would find another victim. Chances are, another one of my friends that go here. If nothing else, I'll stay so nobody else gets hurt. (I have a hero complex. I have no idea where I got it. I think I've read too many books...)

 

Thank you to everyone. If anyone thinks of anything else, still feel free to tell me. I think I'm getting a plan here, and if I pull it right, then everybody's in the clear. Thank you again.

[kchenault]

God bless and good things for you Kieran-Lilith.

[siufeifei]

I'm still a little hazy on the situation. You're 14 and in the adults class yet you say you're twice the age of the other students? I'd still like to hear what kind of orders are being issued outside of the class? How much contact outsdide of the class do you have? When I was in a Preying Mantis school, I had a list of school rules to "obey". A lot of them was about respecting my elders, being polite, always being careful and the such because outside of the class, I was still a representative of that class. When gossip spreads back to the Sifu, he was never happy about it and we would know about it. Problems of small private run school in a small, close community.

[Kieran-Lilith]

Okay, sorry, I forgot to clarify. There's two classes, the adult and the beginner. The beginner class is really moreso the kiddo class, most of them are anywhere from 6-9. I help out there, because my bro goes to that because he's not ready for the adult class. So in the adult class is where most problems occure. Orders are things that I normally would do, that are just enough that a bunch of them grates on what I normally do and how I act. It bothers me. It controls minor things such as where and how I sit (I sit in seisa on chairs of my own free will, I'm not "allowed" to do that by these orders), what I say, whether or not I can be "hyper". (That's beyond his control, I'm a right little nightmare if I get mind to be.)