Differences between Gojukai Karate and Goju Ryu Karate?

[Dr. Flem]

Another detailed and intense post Master Jules, thanks alot. As for Zen Do Kai, it was founded not too long ago. I've spoken with a former pupil and he seems to think that it's a mix of Boxing and Martial Arts but with alot of Muay Thai kicking. I don't really think that that's what I'm looking for.

 

Glad to hear that Goju Kai kicks above the waist line. It sounds like what I'm looking for but being the new guy that I am, I'm going to have to ask this question.... Is Goju Kai a very traditional MA in comparison to Goju Ryu? Do many people train in this style? Does it involve meditation and body conditioning etc? These are some of the factors that I'm looking for.

 

Thanks cross..... I'm in Melbourne, Australia and that link takes me to the site but won't let me into the Victorian locations area. Oh well..... There is a Goju Kai school within a 10 minute walk from my home but I just thought I'd check out some other locations before I commit.

 

Thanks again everybody.

[jedimc]

Fantastic post Master Jules. Thank you very much for the help. I'm just curious but does Goju Kai involve kicks that are above the waist line? I've heard that it's mostly a striking MA. Can you confirm this?

 

I think it'd be better to stick to the original but unfortunetely, there aren't any Okinawan Goju Ryu schools in my area from what I can tell.

 

Another MA I'm looking at would either be Zen Do Kai or Hapkido so any information you can give me would be most helpful. Especially in reference to Zen Do Kai. You seem to be quite knowledgable in the ways of Karate.

 

Thanks again.

 

I had a friend who use to do zen do kai and he speaks very highly of it, but i have read rumors in other forums about thier organisation being money hungry or something like that but you cant judge them on a rumour, it is an australian born art and has many styles in it eg karate , kung fu, taekwondo, jujustu, brazlilian jujustu and heaps more.

 

http://www.zendokai.com.au/Bobjones/info/zdk.htm

[Master Jules]

Another detailed and intense post Master Jules, thanks alot.

 

Glad to hear that Goju Kai kicks above the waist line. It sounds like what I'm looking for but being the new guy that I am, I'm going to have to ask this question.... Is Goju Kai a very traditional MA in comparison to Goju Ryu? Do many people train in this style? Does it involve meditation and body conditioning etc? These are some of the factors that I'm looking for.

 

Thanks again everybody.

 

Make no mistake, the Goju Kai under Yamaguchi is not some half-a$$ed organization.....not by any means......they train hard.....very hard.....Im not disputing that. My point is that in comparison to Okinawan Goju, there are differences. Differences in the performance of certain kata, differences in the bunkai interpretations, and to me, thats the root of the secrets of the system, and although Yamaguchi was a great martial artist in his own right, he nor anyone else for that matter is even remotely qualified (compared to Miyagi) to make these changes.

 

Most systems offer some type of meditative portion to the training, even if its just sitting in "Seiza" before and after class. And many people have become familiar with the famous pictures of Yamaguchi doing his "waterfall training", where he can be seen performing Tensho kata under a waterfall.

 

The Okinawans though, are really much more hardcore when it comes to the body conditioning drills that you speak of. This all falls under an aspect of training known as "hojo undo" (supplemental training). Some of this includes the use of stone weights (chishi), gripping jars (nigiri game), makawara training for knuckles and edge of hand as well as fingertips, and one of my personal favorites, Kotei Kitae (forearm banging).

 

Just remember.....even though the training might be considered "hard".....doesnt mean its right.......Goju Kai offers a good cirriculum, it really does. But its not the "original"......Its just not Okinawan Goju Ryu.......Im just a really hard core traditionalist, so for me there is no substitute ( and I still hold a sensei rank from 1996 in the USA/Urban Goju Ryu version).......If Japanese Goju Ryu under Yamaguchi's Goju Kai is as close as you can get to the "original" where you are......its still a better choice than many other things out there........give it a shot......and please let me know how I can be of further assistance.

[Dr. Flem]

goju kai is focus on tournament karate whereas okinawa goju ryu focus on real karate

Pardon my ignorance but what does that actually mean? Tournament Karate? I don't want to enter any tournaments, I just want to learn Karate. It'd be great if somebody could explain this to me.

 

Thanks again Master Jules.... I may have asked you before but do you know much about Shotokan? Would that incorporate the high kicking, striking and everything else I've been wanting to learn? Sorry for all the questions...you just seem to know your stuff and it's better than creating a new thread. Take your time in answering if time is an issue. Thanks.

[informer]

Happy New Year Everybody and All The Best In 2005

Edited December 26, 2004 by informer

[Master Jules]

Informer.....you seem to speak with a slight tone of authority, and Im just curious as to what your background is. Im not trying to start an adversarial conversation with you, but Id like to know what educational background you are drawing your conclusions from.....again.....your posts seem to have an authoritative air to them, and Id appreciate knowing why that is. Thank you.

[informer]

Happy New Year Everybody and All The Best In 2005

Edited December 26, 2004 by informer

[Master Jules]

Thanks for the response...

 

I studied both systems as well....after my dual sensei test in 96, I decided to leave the Japanese system behind and put all my efforts into the original Okinawan ways.

[Master Jules]

goju kai is focus on tournament karate whereas okinawa goju ryu focus on real karate

Pardon my ignorance but what does that actually mean? Tournament Karate? I don't want to enter any tournaments, I just want to learn Karate. It'd be great if somebody could explain this to me.

 

Thanks again Master Jules.... I may have asked you before but do you know much about Shotokan? Would that incorporate the high kicking, striking and everything else I've been wanting to learn? Sorry for all the questions...you just seem to know your stuff and it's better than creating a new thread. Take your time in answering if time is an issue. Thanks.

 

Shotokan was founded by Gichin Funakoshi. It is what is typically known as a "hard" system. It doesnt really incorporate the high kicking that you would mostly find in TKD for example. Most, if not all of the Okinawan/Japanese disciplines rarely kick above the waist. There are some very advanced applications in Shotokan kata bunkai. If one were to examine some of the old pictures of Funikoshi, he is seen demonstrating kata applications which involve pressure point grabbing. Again though, being a "hard" system, the blocking methods dont really allow for any sticky hand applications, making it very hard to blend with the incoming techniques, and subsequently trap and lock, as in Goju Ryu. It is definetely a system worth studying though. I believe that Goju Ryu is probably the most advanced of the Okinawan systems, but if I had a second choice of arts to study, I would probably go with Uechi Ryu, another Okinawan system that comprises a tremendous repetoir of fighting techniques.

 

Goju Ryu descends from Fukienese White Crane Kung Fu, and if you examine the White Crane form (Hakutsuru), you will see elements of every Goju Ryu kata, as well as the applications to those kata. The Crane form is VERY long, probably 3-4 times as long as any single Goju Ryu form. It is (if performed by someone with skill) an incredibly beautiful and graceful form to watch.

[P.A.L]

Master Jules wrote:"I believe that Goju Ryu is probably the most advanced of the Okinawan systems"

 

you too sensei?mine is better than yours?